Independencia de los países Catalanes !

[shokin]

Actualidad :

El ministro de Industria, José Montilla, ha opinado hoy que "no es lo más acertado" que el gobernador del Banco de España, "que ha de estar por encima de las batallas políticas partidarias, tome posición", porque así "corre el riesgo de que se cuestione su imparcialidad". Para el vicepresidente y ministro de Economía, Pedro Solbes, "no hay ninguna razón" para que el Estatuto de Cataluña tenga efectos económicos negativos "si se hacen las cosas bien".

Preguntado por los periodistas sobre las palabras de ayer del gobernador del Banco de España, Jaime Caruana, que dijo que el nuevo Estatuto podría debilitar la economía española y fragmentar el sistema financiero, Solbes ha señalado que "si se hacen las cosas bien no hay ninguna razón" para pensar que la propuesta catalana tendrá efectos económicos negativos.

A juicio de Solbes, que ha asistido hoy al Consejo de Ministros de Finanzas de la UE, advertir de las consecuencias para la economía española del Estatuto catalán si éste sale adelante "es hacer ciencia-ficción", ya que se está hablando de un proyecto cuya forma final y fecha de aplicación no se conocen. Solbes ha dicho además que "no hay que tener temor a este tipo de debates", y ha recordado que se trata de una propuesta del Parlamento catalán que debe ser debatida por las Cortes. "Estoy convencido de que la decisión que tome el Parlamento será la correcta", ha indicado.

Para el ministro de Industria, José Montilla, "quien tiene que opinar y decidir (sobre el nuevo Estatuto) son los depositarios de la soberanía nacional, que son las Cortes Generales, no ningún representante de un organismo importante como el Banco de España".

Montilla ha subrayado su disposición a "pactar, modificar y mejorar" el texto durante su trámite parlamentario, y ha arremetido contra el Partido Popular por no querer discutir sobre el contenido del Estatuto y limitarse a "demonizarlo" con el objetivo de "crear más crispación, generar más confrontación entre los territorios de España, y con una posición que sólo busca la erosión del Gobierno y en ningún caso la búsqueda de fórmulas que a medio y largo plazo garanticen mejor la convivencia en nuestro país".

Caruana manifestó ayer, en una comparecencia ante la Comisión de Presupuestos del Congreso, su preocupación por el proyecto catalán, ya que puede afectar a la "cohesión interna" desde el punto de vista económico, así como al bienestar del conjunto de los españoles. El gobernador agregó que la actual redacción de la propuesta de Estatuto para Cataluña puede afectar "no sólo a la cohesión interna, sino también a la capacidad de las políticas públicas para mantener la integración del mercado y la eficiencia en el funcionamiento de la economía". "Cambios institucionales de esta naturaleza -continuó Caruana- pueden tener consecuencias económicas importantes y duraderas, debilitar la eficiencia y capacidad de crecer de la economía y afectar al bienestar de los españoles".

ElPaís

Madrid does not seem for the independance of the Catalan lands. The Spanish Parliament seems being very opposite to their autonomy / access to sovereignty.

Let us remember a part of the catalan history :

Greeks and Carthagininians colonized Catalonia, like all the Iberic Peninsula. Part of Roman Empire, taken by Visigothics...

From the middle age, Catalans did develop a great maritime power, expanding by trade and conquest into Valencia, the Balearic Islands, and even Sardinia and Sicily.

The marriage of Isabella I of Castile and Ferdinand II of Aragon (1469) unified Christian Spain.

For some time, Catalonia continued to retain its own laws, but these gradually eroded.

In the second half of the 19th century, Catalonia became a center of Spain's industrialization.

Catalan autonomy and culture were crushed to an unprecedented degree after the defeat of the Second Spanish Republic (founded 1931) in the Spanish Civil War (1936–1939) brought Francisco Franco to power. Even public use of the Catalan language was banned.

After Franco's death (1975) and the adoption of a democratic Spanish constitution (1978), Catalonia recovered cultural autonomy and some political autonomy. Today, Catalonia is almost universally recognized as the most economically dynamic region of Spain and the Catalan capital, Barcelona, is second only to Madrid as a cultural center.

And you, are you for the sovereignty of Catalonia, or of Catalan countries, or not at all ?

Shokin

[Dixie]

Shokin!!!!

I was so shocked and amazed when I saw your topic!! As a Catalan who cares for our own sovereignty and especially for respect towards our culture, I am so thankful to you! Merci, Ashok!

Today is Oct 12, a "national day" in Spain. Many Catalans always claim that we do not have anything to celebrate (except me, since it's my bf's birthday ).

Spaniards continue to attack us. They still want to exterminate our culture and especially our language -which by the way is spoken by 10 million people, more than, for instance, Danish- and yet is not recognized as an official language in Europe. Why? Simply because the Spanish government does not want to accept is as an official language in Spain.

Catalan is spoken in Catalonia, Valencian Country, Balearic Islands, a part of Aragon, Andorra and Alghero, in Italy. It's an important language and yet they want to exterminate it. Why?

[louvicine]

Why Dixie?

Because people from catalan countries are more intelligent and brights than the rest.

[Dixie]

Why Dixie?

Because people from catalan countries are more intelligent and brights than the rest.

I don't think so, clever people are everywhere, as well as dumb people.

[Rui]

but you want the completely independence?, i mean be a country out of Spain, or just delegate some powers to local authorities that now are in Madrid? Sorry for my opinion but is weird, at least seeing the things from outside that some parts of Spain still wanting the independence because Spain is country with a strong development, i mean, with all the territory together Spain it will be much more stronger, but probably i'm wrong... as i said this is view from outside the problems that possibly could exist.

[Dixie]

but you want the completely independence?, i mean be a country out of Spain, or just delegate some powers to local authorities that now are in Madrid? Sorry for my opinion but is weird, at least seeing the things from outside that some parts of Spain still wanting the independence because Spain is country with a strong development, i mean, with all the territory together Spain it will be much more stronger, but probably i'm wrong... as i said this is view from outside the problems that possibly could exist.

Without us, Spain would be a poor country All the industry comes from the Catalan lands, especially from Catalonia

"Some parts of Spain" want the independence, Rui, for many reasons, the main ones being that we do not feel Spanish at all. We have our own language, our culture, our customs, our traditions, etc, which difer completely from the Spanish; and we don't want to be a part of them. Foreigners who come to Barcelona think they will see bullfighting and flamenco there. And that's completely weird! Bullfighting and flamenco are NOT Catalan traditions. Catalan traditions would be human towers, for instance, which I'm afraid are much less known.

Moreover, most Spanish are against us: they insult us (why oh why does someone insult somebody just because they speak a different language or don't feel and think like them?), they show a constant misrespect for all those things that are related to Catalonia, and they want to exterminate us just like Franco tried to do.

[shokin]

It sounds like the Quebec. It seems that :

The Catalonia is to the Spain what the Quebec is to the Canada.

Of course, I am for their sovereignty (and this of the Tibet face to the China).

The Catalonia distinguishes itself from the Spain by its language (catalan in the Catalonia, castillan in the rest of Spain, RES), like the Quebec distinguinshes itself from the Canada by its language (french, or quebecer, in the Quebec, english in the rest of Canada, ROC, except the New-Brunswick, le Nouveau-Brunswick, which is the only one bilingual province in the Canada).

Different by their language, but different by their culture, too. Language is one part of the culture.

Canadian government, Ottawa, Paul Martin, is afraid of losing the Quebec. Is Spanish government (gobiernato), Madrid, Mariano Rajoy, afraid of losing the Catonia ?

There are some people in the Quebec which are against (or hopeless to) the sovereignty of the Quebec. They are named "federalists". Are there some people in the Cataonia which are against (or hopeless to) the sovereignty of the Catonia ?

I should learn a bit the catalan language like I've learned a little the quebecer language.

EDIT : now I think : I know some independantist music groups of the Quebec. Are there some independantist music groups of the Catalonia ?

What do you think about Ska-P ?

Shokin

[shokin]

Dixie, or any others people from Catalonia, could you tell me what are the distinctions (all that you know, even these already here written) between the Catalonia and the rest of Spain ?

It is for answering clearly to another person on another forum, who said that

"in catalonia the language is on equal footing with castilian and all documents within catalonia are printed in both languages, education is largely bilingual although about 30% of the people are solely educated in catalan, there is no "distinct" society issues with catalonians and they realize that they don't need to dismantle spain to be a living and exciting culture,"

Of course, he is not for the sovereignty of the Quebec.

Te gusta Molotov ?

Shokin

[Dixie]

EDIT : now I think : I know some independantist music groups of the Quebec. Are there some independantist music groups of the Catalonia ?

What do you think about Ska-P ?

There are plenty, but not only from Catalonia but also from other parts of the Catalan lands. Obrint Pas, Inadaptats, Brams and many other music groups claim for the independence of our countries and also for the unity of our language. There are many other groups and musicians who don't have independentist lyrics but they are discriminated against in the rest of Spain just because they sing in Catalan.

Ska-P? Those are Spanish. My boyfriend, who is a ska music fan, always says that Ska-P is not ska

[Dixie]

Dixie, or any others people from Catalonia, could you tell me what are the distinctions (all that you know, even these already here written) between the Catalonia and the rest of Spain ?

It is for answering clearly to another person on another forum, who said that

"in catalonia the language is on equal footing with castilian and all documents within catalonia are printed in both languages, education is largely bilingual although about 30% of the people are solely educated in catalan, there is no "distinct" society issues with catalonians and they realize that they don't need to dismantle spain to be a living and exciting culture,"

Of course, he is not for the sovereignty of the Quebec.

Te gusta Molotov ?

Education is bilingual? Well, I don't know in the capitals, but at least in my hometown, small kids can't speak Spanish. My 7-year-old cousin doesn't understand it. Why? Because Catalan is the language we speak here, at home, in the street, and at school. The only Spanish she hears is from TV or videogames. Same happened to me: when I was small, I was so amused when I heard someone speaking Spanish near me: I always thought: "That's what they speak on TV!!!". Sounded kind of weird.

But it's different in the capitals, especially Barcelona. The great flux of immigration that came in the 1950s and 60s was really relevant. Now, the children of those immigrants (most of them) won't learn or speak Catalan, since they say "We are in Spain, and we speak Spanish" (same as their parents). Education is different there, I guess, but I can't tell since I've lived and grown-up in an entire different environment.

I remember when I was 18 and moved to Tarragona, the capital of my province, for college. I was in a students hostel and there were some students from other parts of Spain there. I remember I shared an apartment with a girl from Cartagena. Of course she didn't speak any Catalan and that would be the first time I had to express myself in Spanish. I remember how hard it was for me. I couldn't think in Spanish, words kept coming to me in Catalan (of course I am more fluent now ). What I mean is that in small towns, like mine, our language is still very alive.

PS: Molotov? They were in fashion when I was a teen. Nah, I don't like them, why?