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Every day we hear news like this....

the amircan army kills ineccent people ...

i dont know why you donts see this news!!!!

your media is hiding the truth of Iraq

yaster day : and Amircan solders fired a bus which was talking a family to theri relative,,

women and kids were in it, and the father who is the driver,,

all of them died, only one young boy,, who watched his family ding in from of his eyes....

We do hear these news too, there are no words to describe what one feels.

You don't even live in Iraq Mr Lovey ol' boy therefore you can not assume that you can speak for Iraqis. You don't know what it is like for them. Many of them are not Muslim or are of the "wrong" muslim sect according to the resistance fighters.

Perhaps you would like our troops to leave Iraq today so your terrorist friends there could have a great slaughter for Allah tomorrow? Hmm? That seems to be your inferrance here

Everyone knows that the Iraqis are not capable of sustaining peace in Iraq on their own just yet. So, get with the program here boy because people like you are only prolonging he unrest in Iraq and getting more innocent lives killed to boot!!

danyet wrote:You don't even live in Iraq Mr Lovey ol' boy therefore you can not assume that you can speak for Iraqis. You don't know what it is like for them.

you dont even live in Isreal. DAnyet , therefore you can not assume that you can speak for isrealians
You don't know what it is like for them.......

Perhaps we would like you to stop putting all your anger on the iraq civilians only because you can't find bin laden.
Who will be the next after Saddam, the men and women, and the childrens?

Be careful in your attitude here, boy, this community is not the real world where you can call big daddy bush for shutting other's mouths with bombs.

danyet wrote:You don't even live in Iraq Mr Lovey ol' boy therefore you can not assume that you can speak for Iraqis. You don't know what it is like for them. Many of them are not Muslim or are of the "wrong" muslim sect according to the resistance fighters.

Perhaps you would like our troops to leave Iraq today so your terrorist friends there could have a great slaughter for Allah tomorrow? Hmm? That seems to be your inferrance here

Everyone knows that the Iraqis are not capable of sustaining peace in Iraq on their own just yet. So, get with the program here boy because people like you are only prolonging he unrest in Iraq and getting more innocent lives killed to boot!!

Actually, I agree with a majority of what danyet says. Iraq is not capable of peace within itself and the Americans need to be there at the moment.

It seems danyet's popularity is not exactly high at the moment but when you read some of his posts in an unbiased way, you can see some truth.

Unknownsu wrote:It seems danyet's popularity is not exactly high at the moment but when you read some of his posts in an unbiased way, you can see some truth.

I second that.

Unknownsu wrote:
Actually, I agree with a majority of what danyet says. Iraq is not capable of peace within itself and the Americans need to be there at the moment.
.

First, let the Amircans to solve their owen problum which happen daily in US,,,killing,stealing,CIA,White house,FBI,,,congres,,,,,,,,

Bush popurality in US is dicreasing these dayes!!!!


he juat want Oil !!!!!!

only OIL,,,,OIL is a big dream in his mind

Admiral wrote:
Who will be the next after Saddam?

.

they are already listed :
1- Ahmed Najadi (Iran)
2- Bashar al-assad (Syria)
....
....
...
Nourth Koria....... US and bosh ae very afraid from this small country...... they alwayes say " lets talk ,,lets talk "
but with other " WE WILL ATTACK YOU ....."

Tony Blair is always the victim of Bush..... he alwayed do what bush do,, agree with him ,,,, he cannot disagree!!!!!!!

mr_Love wrote:

Unknownsu wrote:
Actually, I agree with a majority of what danyet says. Iraq is not capable of peace within itself and the Americans need to be there at the moment.
.

First, let the Amircans to solve their owen problum which happen daily in US,,,killing,stealing,CIA,White house,FBI,,,congres,,,,,,,,

Bush popurality in US is dicreasing these dayes!!!!


he juat want Oil !!!!!!

only OIL,,,,OIL is a big dream in his mind

I don't believe in war in Iraq because baby Bush had his own purpose; however, it doesn't mean I think the Americans should turn their backs away from Iraq because it has its own problems. You can't deny the fact that Iraqi people had their problems such as burried alive, getting killed by the dictator, etc. The oil is just the addition to it. Don't just use it as it's the ONLY reason why the Americans are over there, please.

I agree with you mr_love
I don't know why mr.danyet is so ~ like that?
Are you feel happy when you see the American's corposes return to your country in the board of a plane? I suggest what you will say ( IT IS OUR DUTY ,WE HAVE TO SACRIFICE FOR THE SAKE OF Iraqi FREEDOM) .Many Iraqi people and also Americans are killed everyday till now . this kind of war isnot positive at all. you have to put yourself in the place of those who are killed or lose their children. it is very terrible. please if you want to find the trouth of what is happening in Iraq and palastine, don't watch just the american media,but also try to get the news from different resources,including arabic and islamic sites.only then you will not be prejudice.

meny wrote:but also try to get the news from different resources,including arabic and islamic sites.only then you will not be prejudice.

OH really? So I should get the news from Islamic sites? I wonder why I never thought to go to religious extremeists and racial bigots for my news before.

It is no wonder why you are so messed up in the head, matey!

mr_Love wrote: First, let the Amircans to solve their owen problum which happen daily in US,,,killing,stealing,CIA,White house,FBI,,,congres,,,,,,,,

Bush popurality in US is dicreasing these dayes!!!!


he juat want Oil !!!!!!

only OIL,,,,OIL is a big dream in his mind

Why do you remember only the negative aspects of American politics? Are you not thankful for all the peacekeeping the US devotes itself to? Are you not thankful for the largest diaster relief efforts of any country for countries who cannot help themselves? Do you not feel relieved that the US probably holds the largest humanitarian work in the world? Or do you conveniently forget about all that just so you can hate the US for attacking Iraq? Sure, many die in Iraq everyday but if Saddam was still in power, would the Iraqis live in peace and harmony through this dictator?

What country has not done wrong? The US is under the microscope because so much relies on them. I am against the war in Iraq or any war for that matter but you should not look at the world with one eye closed.

Unknownsu wrote:

mr_Love wrote: First, let the Amircans to solve their owen problum which happen daily in US,,,killing,stealing,CIA,White house,FBI,,,congres,,,,,,,,

Bush popurality in US is dicreasing these dayes!!!!


he juat want Oil !!!!!!

only OIL,,,,OIL is a big dream in his mind

Why do you remember only the negative aspects of American politics? Are you not thankful for all the peacekeeping the US devotes itself to? Are you not thankful for the largest diaster relief efforts of any country for countries who cannot help themselves? Do you not feel relieved that the US probably holds the largest humanitarian work in the world? Or do you conveniently forget about all that just so you can hate the US for attacking Iraq? Sure, many die in Iraq everyday but if Saddam was still in power, would the Iraqis live in peace and harmony through this dictator?

What country has not done wrong? The US is under the microscope because so much relies on them. I am against the war in Iraq or any war for that matter but you should not look at the world with one eye closed.

:D Well said. People do forget the good the US does and nobody wants war, we are hoping that peace will come. 8)

Unknownsu ,,, Are you looking for a green cad in US


yea Shazzam, lets the peace come !

mr_Love wrote:Unknownsu ,,, Are you looking for a green cad in US


yea Shazzam, lets the peace come !

You know mr love peace will come; but peace is a state of mind; so you have to find peace in yourself, then you can accept real peace. 8)

i'm peaceful man

mr_Love wrote:i'm peaceful man

Well mr love more people like you and me can make the world a peaceful place. That is what we need. People to accept each others differences and everyone will get on. One day I hope this will happen. I just can't see it happening for along time. But there is always hope, so we have to believe that someday we can agree to disagree and live together peacefully.!!

In the words of the BEACH BOYS "Wouldn't it be nice".

8) :D

all people needs peace and they love peace

but there are little who dont love this WORD!!!!

living in Peace was a dream from the Past past paaaaaaaaaaast years....

but this dream didnt hppen yet !!!!

mr_Love wrote:all people needs peace and they love peace

but there are little who dont love this WORD!!!!

living in Peace was a dream from the Past past paaaaaaaaaaast years....

but this dream didnt hppen yet !!!!

Yes but don't you see that is the problem living in the past. You take with you the disputes your parents and their parents had. Who needs that In addition we have new ideas, new hopes, new dreams, most of the time our parents etc. can't understand them. Does that make them right or us wrong.

You have to make your own choices on your own opinions

mr_Love wrote:Unknownsu ,,, Are you looking for a green cad in US


yea Shazzam, lets the peace come !

What is a green cad? Do you mean green card? Why would I want an American green card? I don't even like the US. :?

mr_Love wrote:i'm peaceful man

I'm sorry but I cannot believe that. I think you are a naïve, ignorant, and worse of all, angry man.

Unknownsu wrote:

mr_Love wrote:i'm peaceful man

I'm sorry but I cannot believe that. I think you are a naïve, ignorant, and worse of all, angry man.

you are the angry man !!!!

you are angry now because i say "Do you want a green card?"

i was jocking with you man ,,,,

take is easy and be peaceful

I never said I was a peaceful person. In fact, I am not at peace.

You see, Mr Love, we are not on a joking basis and since you made that comment with the green card, that makes you naive.

Your hatred for the US makes you biased against everything the US does and that makes you ignorant.

You openly criticize danyet for disrespecting your religion when you could calmly help him understand your point of view instead of swearing makes you angry.

You will interpret my post thinking I am insulting you which makes everything I said up to now in vain.

That's all I want to say.

:)

mr_Love wrote:


Bush popurality in US is dicreasing these dayes!!!!


he juat want Oil !!!!!!

only OIL,,,,OIL is a big dream in his mind

you forgot something :
try the new weapons
good marketing

ahmads wrote:

mr_Love wrote:


Bush popurality in US is dicreasing these dayes!!!!


he juat want Oil !!!!!!

only OIL,,,,OIL is a big dream in his mind

you forgot something :
trying the new weapons
good marketing

I can't think of a nicer bunch of people to try those weapons out on.

Besides the average Iraqi feels better off now and thinks that the future is looking good for them.
Two thirds of the Troops in Iraq believe in what they are doing and morale is high.
The reinlistment of soldiers returning from Iraq is even higher than what the Pentagon originally predicted.

Two thirds of Iraq is relatively safe. It is only the Sunni Triangle that still presents a problem.

It is only the liberal press and terrorist sympathizers that report so negatively on the war. I take it that you are not the liberal press, Almads

danyet wrote:

ahmads wrote:

mr_Love wrote:


Bush popurality in US is dicreasing these dayes!!!!


he juat want Oil !!!!!!

only OIL,,,,OIL is a big dream in his mind

you forgot something :
trying the new weapons
good marketing

I can't think of a nicer bunch of people to try those weapons out on.

Besides the average Iraqi feels better off now and thinks that the future is looking good for them.
Two thirds of the Troops in Iraq believe in what they are doing and morale is high.
The reinlistment of soldiers returning from Iraq is even higher than what the Pentagon originally predicted.

Two thirds of Iraq is relatively safe. It is only the Sunni Triangle that still presents a problem.

It is only the liberal press and terrorist sympathizers that report so negatively on the war. I take it that you are not the liberal press, Almads

nicer bunch of people

maybe , America helps Iraqi people ,,but it is not the main reason for existing the American troop in iraq.
When it comes to try (TEST)the weapons,
I think America has a big history for it.
P.s:::: I am Ahmad and my nickname is Ahmads not Almads

Mr_love :
please do not talk about the feeling people in iraq becuse you are did not recognize how arab and muslim think , you must recognize that there is a lot of deffrent between arab and you
and i will give you this advice for you do not watch just fox new or another channel as same this it .
sorry about my english

http://images.google.com.tr/imgres?imgu ... tr%26lr%3D

plese click this site and remember what abd did in ıraq
the peacefull american people..i think we can not describe them as people...animals dont do it eachother but americans do and document their photos to show their groundchilds what a wild mans they were...

there are lots of web sites and hundreds of photo like that...
so please americans and their flatterers;
do not mention about peace
do not mention about humanity

just be sorry and pray for poor not only ıraqians but also all people who americans crashes all over the world...

phantomer wrote:http://images.google.com.tr/imgres?imgu ... tr%26lr%3D

plese click this site and remember what abd did in ıraq
the peacefull american people..i think we can not describe them as people...animals dont do it eachother but americans do and document their photos to show their groundchilds what a wild mans they were...
there are lots of web sites and hundreds of photo like that...
so please americans and their flatterers;
do not mention about peace
do not mention about humanity

just be sorry and pray for poor not only ıraqians but also all people who americans crashes all over the world...

Excuse me, children in the Third World countries work 12 cents a day to feed their families and some of the still get beaten up by their alcoholic or gambling addicted parents. Little girls in those countries still get arranged marriages. Some of them get sold to brothels. Should I go on more of what is happening to children around the world, and not just in America?
And "we cannot describe them as humans" and "animals don't do it to each other but americans do"??? Excuse me, when you make a comparison between humans and animals, you indirectly take away the rights of animals. Also, please don't show those pictures anymore. I find them extremely disturbing. A person with a sicko mind can do it with no trouble with photoshop, you know.

ok guy...

i am agree with you about the children in the 3rd world countries.

but do not want me to believe usa is a defencer country of humanrights in the world. usa just defence their profits..is it normal? yes of course..all countries have to defence their profits, this is the normalist right they have..so, what is the problem? it is which way countries follow when they defence their profits..

the way usa follow in iraq is out of humanity..yes you want to get more petroleum, you want a base in the middleaest for your futuristic ideas, may be you want to obtain peace in iraq, as a matter of fact you want to obscure more land..all of them can be described normal intentions for countries..it is war..but war also has their own rules designated by international treaties..

but, when trying to realize their aim, any country can not allow their army to kill children, babies, civilians,etc....can not allow tortures in their jails...can not allow their wild people to take photos when they torture to other countries' babies, children and civilian people..

at last, all of us know that the photos didnt do with photoshop..the usa person who took photos like this are being judged by usa military courts..they are real..i really dont want to be real but they are..

Okay, clearly we're not gonna board on the same platform together, so why don't you give me the proof that those pictures were not products of photoshop? Remember, with today technology an amateur could make those pictures if that person takes a bit of time to learn about photoshop. If they could airbrush a model from size 6 to size 2 in pictures, then it's possible to do anything with photoshop.

if the photos were taken by usa troops in the usa jails producted with photoshop why usa punished their own personnel because of their tortures...the government accepted this torture but you dont..its your choice...of course i can not give you a proof...

Lennye, it's true, the torturing of Iraqi prisoners in Iraqi jails was a major scandal in the US. Chances are those photos are real. An amateur who takes a bit of time to study photoshop wouldn't be able to produce something like that. It is possible the photo is a fake but the torture of prisoners is not.

phantomer, if what you say is true, then there are not many "people" living in this world. We're just all animals. With war comes war crimes. Every country has committed an atrocity in one form or another and I'm sure Turkey is not exempt. Take the Japanese for example, what they did in WWII in China is so cruel and vicious, for a Christian, it would be a sin just to think about it. Not every American wanted this war in Iraq and Bush will never admit it to be his fault (very similar to the Vietnam War) but the world is so caught up in American politics that we tend to let our passion overcome our reasoning.

Unknownsu wrote:Lennye, it's true, the torturing of Iraqi prisoners in Iraqi jails was a major scandal in the US. Chances are those photos are real. An amateur who takes a bit of time to study photoshop wouldn't be able to produce something like that. It is possible the photo is a fake but the torture of prisoners is not.

Well, even if the photos were real, I still wouldn't wanna believe it based on the way he talked. This is what he said, "i think we can not describe them as people...animals dont do it eachother but americans do and document their photos to show their groundchilds what a wild mans they were...". I, myself, would rather choose to be an ignorant than believing in people with prejudiced opinions.

I don't know why americans think that they are the saviors of the world and from whom they got the priviledge to unify the world under their nationality.
http://odur.let.rug.nl/~usa/E/manifest/manif1.htm#man

".... the right of our manifest destiny to over spread and to possess the whole of the continent which Providence has given us for the development of the great experiment of liberty and federaltive development of self government entrusted to us. It is right such as that of the tree to the space of air and the earth suitable for the full expansion of its principle and destiny of growth." (Brinkley 352)

Do you think that "destiny" is a good reason to overspread the continent and to conquer other people?

Lennye

ok, i accept, a made a mistake when describing usa troops as "americans"..in fact i know not all of americans support this war and bushs politics..but as i said the war is acceptable..maybe usa has valid reasons to be in iraq, for their profits..but in spite off all, torture, killing babies, women, civilians is not acceptable...and i think you do not support this kind of behaviours and of course anybody must not..


unknownsu said me "if what you say is true, then there are not many "people" living in this world. We're just all animals. With war comes war crimes. Every country has committed an atrocity in one form or another and I'm sure Turkey is not exempt."

yes you are right, there arent many...and you, if we behave like them we are just all animals..but i tihnk you arent right "war comes war crimes"..lots of treaty countries have, and according to these teraties wars' rules were designated, and countries signed them...though you are in a war but you cant do whatever you want for winning the war...

also, i dont want to be seen as racist but i am sure Türkiye is exempt..through the centuries, Türks were in war against lots of countries..but neither they were fighting nor after occupation, Türks did not damage any work of art and also did not injure any civilian..

some examples about Türks..
When conquer the İstanbul, the great conquerer Fatih Sultan Mehmed published some rules to his troops about the work of arts and old owners of İstanbul..according to that, any Ottoman didnt damage none of arts iclude Hajia Sophia and others, didnt forced any byzantianes people to be Muslim, didnt want them to kneel down before Sultan..and for centuries these go on and on like this...

and one example from Atatürk, the founder of the republic of Türkiye..after their occupation in 1918, greeks (sons of byzatienes) has commited atrocity in the western Anatolia..they set on fire lots of cities, they violated our grand grand mothers, killed babies and old peoples..when their commender came to İzmir, the westest city of Anatolia, he stepped on a Türk flag that was spread by his men to enter their headquarter..after four years Türks put out them from Anatolia, and our commander Atatürk came to İzmir with his soldiers..he also went to same headquarter..the people who couldnt forget greeks did, spreat greek flag in front of the enter..when he saw it, Atatürk ordered his soldiers to get the flag from there..he want them to clean it and bring to him again..he presented the flag to greek commender who was taken captive by Türks when he showing honour to his colleague...

so not every country has committed an atrocity in one form or another...and i am sure Türkiye is exempt...

LennyeTran wrote: Well, even if the photos were real, I still wouldn't wanna believe it based on the way he talked. This is what he said, "i think we can not describe them as people...animals dont do it eachother but americans do and document their photos to show their groundchilds what a wild mans they were...". I, myself, would rather choose to be an ignorant than believing in people with prejudiced opinions.

How can it be prejudice when it's real since this person is stating what he saw and believed? CNN interviewed two former guards at the prison who did not partake in any of the torture rituals and found that these two guys wake up screaming every night to what they saw in the Iraqi prison. One can't even consider himself American anymore.

If you are going to torture (both mentally and physically) another human being for your own pleasure, you forfeit your right as a human being.

Turkey has never committed war crimes? Ever? Forgive me if I cannot believe that. Either you are brainwashed by continuous propaganda or you are suffering the similar fate of young Japanese today where their history books are completely wiped clean of all their inhumane acts of WWII.

Perhaps you should visit these sites...

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Cyprus/7758/

"The turk is not a human being. I do not call him a beast, because not one of God's dumb creatures could sink so low. The turk is a devil without a tail." - William W. Howard, 1896, An American Eyewitness to turk Savagery

http://imia.cc.duth.gr/turkey/chro.e.html

The Greek Holocaust of Thrace, Asia Minor and Pontos
http://imia.cc.duth.gr/turkey/gree.e.html

The Armenian Genocide
http://www.teachgenocide.org/files/News ... arious.pdf
http://www.cedarland.org/armenia.html

And let us not forget the illegal occupation of Northern Cyprus
http://www.heureka.clara.net/sunrise/cypdiv.htm

Maybe you should visit my other topic here:

http://www.englishclub.com/esl-forums/v ... hp?t=35279

first of all i have to say something about my idea about the people from all over the world..i dont hate anybody from any nation and i am not prejudiced to anyone..i can be friend whole people who want to chat, want to share theirs opinions, want to deal ours ideas, etc...

i also do not believe that some nations is damned..i like every people, if they behave like humanbeing..i do not like the people unjust and are insisting on their unjust mode even if they are Türk...

and our topic...Türks and Türkiye...

initially i have to say something about armeniens and greeks...
they are always unable to stand again Türkiye..i think they are too unfaithful..though they have to thank to Türks, but they are slandering..and the well, charming, developed, philantrophic, benevolent west..yes, the west of the world is supporting them when they are trying to persuade whole world with their lies..but i am not talking about all armenians and greeks..i am talked about greeks and armenians who know realities but trying to spread theirs lies to young peoples, to students in theirs schools, etc...

all of these countries and the others have lived with eachother peacefully in the Ottoman Empire..think that, you are living in domination of one country for 600 years, after 600 years you still have your religion, you are still speaking your mother language, you are still named your babies with your cultures names...after 600 years, if you still can do these, we can mention about a great liberty..and like every starts, ottomans starts went to stop..in fact, everything started at these times..

anyway, i will explain you why armenians and greeks behaved like that..why they behaved too unfaithful against us..now i have no enough time..i cant write fastly in english, because i cant think fastly in english..

and the last one...as you know everybody use internet to prove theirs ideas and there are hundreds of web sites about everything...so it is not the best way to show some adresses..i think we should investigate ours ideas, read something about our thesis, and if we dont accept we should create our anti-thesis..it will support us to learn more about that..

see you...

Well, from my point of view, it doesn't matter what kind of explanation you give, genocide cannot be justified.

It's ironic, isn't it? The quote from William W. Howard is exactly how you are describing the Americans today.

Unknownsu wrote:
How can it be prejudice when it's real since this person is stating what he saw and believed? CNN interviewed two former guards at the prison who did not partake in any of the torture rituals and found that these two guys wake up screaming every night to what they saw in the Iraqi prison. One can't even consider himself American anymore.

If you are going to torture (both mentally and physically) another human being for your own pleasure, you forfeit your right as a human being.

Okay, let's try this example, shall we?
From reading your posts, I can tell Violet, you, Chet Baker, greatJim, Triumph, Tonyyoung and other Chinese members of this board are smart; therefore, can I say all Chinese people are smart? What about other Chinese people who are just as dumb as a brick like the rest of the dumb people in this world? My example is exactly like what he's doing. He based his belief on pictures of some Americans who have degraded themselves as a human being. It has nothing to do with being an American or not; we're talking about one human being tortured another. However, he generalized the whole population of American based on the actions of some Americans. I call it prejudice.

Stereotypes and prejudice will always be part of this world no matter how hard we try to eradicate it and I agree with you. But I was aiming specifically at the American soldiers who tortured the numerous prisoners.

Btw, I'm not smart. I belong to the group of brick brains.

Unknownsu wrote:Stereotypes and prejudice will always be part of this world no matter how hard we try to eradicate it and I agree with you. But I was aiming specifically at the American soldiers who tortured the numerous prisoners.

Btw, I'm not smart. I belong to the group of brick brains.

Oh don't flatter yourself. I was just trying to make my point.

You brick brain! Please understand, I'm just trying to flatter you.

Unknownsu wrote:You brick brain! Please understand, I'm just trying to flatter you.

.... I can't speak! There is no word to describe how I'm feeling right now.... You apologize to me right now or....

ohh, what's up guys!!!!

calm down!!

LennyeTran wrote:

Unknownsu wrote:You brick brain! Please understand, I'm just trying to flatter you.

.... I can't speak! There is no word to describe how I'm feeling right now.... You apologize to me right now or....

...or what?

Unknownsu wrote:

LennyeTran wrote:

Unknownsu wrote:You brick brain! Please understand, I'm just trying to flatter you.

.... I can't speak! There is no word to describe how I'm feeling right now.... You apologize to me right now or....

...or what?

Still thinking... but definitely something bad will happen. Be prepared if you don't apologize. Do it now. Do it now. Do it now. Now. Now. Now.