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Battle for Taiwan

Let others know the latest news, or discuss it with them.

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Postby SleepyTear » Tue Jan 10, 2006 7:26 am

Maybe I am not qualified enough to comment on this issue here. But I am Chinese, a high school student of China. I have read all the posts above. Personally, I do agree with some of the "Foreigners" coz I think they are learned<maybe...>, they know so many things!! :roll: For me, I even don't know exactly where New York is... :oops:

I think Tanwanese are Chinese. This is FACT. And Taiwan is part of China. Also FACT. You can't deny the history,which all high school students of China know well.The Taiwan issue's caused ultimately by the difference of political ground of two categories of Chinese. Why you "Foreigners" want to interfere is just a question of interest,right? It's undeniable.

As to the possiblity of a war, maybe there will be one.
It's normal, there are so many wars within China and Her people. Tanwan will definitely lose. What you " Foreigners" do is just useless, except arousing 1.3 billion people's hatred against you... :oops:

I am not an adult yet...so forgive my rudeness...
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Postby Danyet » Tue Jan 10, 2006 2:21 pm

No one is denying that Taiwan was not originally part of China but for 50 years Taiwan has been free of Chinas opressive government. The question is: Why, after 50 years of freedom in Taiwan, should the world stand idle and let the corrupt government of China, one of the worlds leading violators of Human Rights, sieze control of Taiwan against their will??????????????

Only the most fanatical Chinese citizen can not see that his goverment has brainwashed him into a "war mentallity". You Chinese who speak of War over Taiwan had better be very, very careful because after your war is finished you are going to be very, very sorry people. You will have nothing!! .........But those "Leaders" who lead you into war will be relatively unscathed!
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Postby ANDYTAN » Tue Jan 10, 2006 7:31 pm

violet wrote:
danyet wrote:I'll tell you what mikexiao, if the rest of the world cut your country off economically you would soon be begging to go to Taiwan.


Ohhhhh danyet! I have been deeply moved by your justice :cry: , until I saw this sentence :shock: . Why do you want other countries to cut China off? :evil: Don't you know that more than 1.3 billion people are living in China and in that case many of us (maybe I am included) would die in starving :cry: :cry: :cry: ? I don't think I could go to Taiwan, Because unlike the way Chinese mainland treats Taiwan, Taiwan couldn't allow us to go there freely, I'm sure of it. :roll:


Let's think about some questions before we draw a conclusion whether Taiwan should get its independence, okay? (Actually I hhave no idea which choice is better for Chinese and Chinese future, this is a too big matter, isn't it?)

1) Why don't other countries cut off China economically now that Communism is hated by so many people in the world?
2) Suppose Taiwan is not as rich as it now be, if Chinese mainland gives all the encouraging policy of working and investment to Taiwanese, as we now do, will they still want to be seperated from mainland?
3) Suppose Chinese mainland is a Capitalism and Taiwan is a Communism, if Taiwan government and people want to be independent, what will be other countries' reaction? Will Americans support Taiwan? Will Mainland admit it?
3) If Taiwan gets its independence without any resistance from mainland, later, another governer of a Chinese city (for example Shanghai) tables a proposal of this city's independence, or maybe half of the citizens in this city agree with the proposal, and of course the city can get support from US and Japan...If this really happen, is there any reason to object its separating from China?
4) If any district in China can freely separate, what will happen?
5) Can any district in US freely separate from the United States?
6) Can any district in any sovereign state in the world freely separate from its country?
...
Let me think over and bring up more questions soon. You guys keep on debating, please. :D :P
wow!! hi. violet.. it's ever so wonderful!!! :P i complete agree with you ..I object the taiwan separate from mainland !! in my heart !! i believe that taiwan's in a measure of china forever !!
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Postby ANDYTAN » Tue Jan 10, 2006 8:05 pm

[quote="danyet"]No one is denying that Taiwan was not originally part of China but for 50 years Taiwan has been free of Chinas opressive government. The question is: Why, after 50 years of freedom in Taiwan, should the world stand idle and let the corrupt government of China, one of the worlds leading violators of Human Rights, sieze control of Taiwan against their will??????????????

Only the most fanatical Chinese citizen can not see that his goverment has brainwashed him into a "war mentallity". You Chinese who speak of War over Taiwan had better be very, very careful because after your war is finished you are going to be very, very sorry people. You will have nothing!! .........But those "Leaders" who lead you into war will be relatively unscathed![/quote  NO! I DON'T agree with you .. who say Taiwan was not originally part of China but for 50 years !! :x who say china haven't Human Rights!! it's just you personly idea!! you..usa always have condemnation our china from everything!! even we right to do and you never to identify with us. I don't know if you ( usa ) have big problem with me and leading to bewilderment us in anything!! ( such as taiwan problem and china join in the WTO before and so on ) , I BElieve that the taiwan already liberated by mainland now if didn't you (usa) make gestures with taiwan.. as matter of fact . you should responsibility for our china's unification......
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Postby Danyet » Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:02 am

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Postby SleepyTear » Wed Jan 11, 2006 10:10 am

danyet wrote:You must live in a cave! It is not just me who knows of China's appauling human rights violations. Read these, there are hundreds more, similar.


I'm sorry. The websites you listed can't be opened. I don't know why. Can you copy some of the content for me? I wanna read them very much.

Not a government is perfect I think,or every government is corrupt.Don't you think so?

Maybe it has been a tradition formed in every Chinese citizen regarding Taiwan Problem that motherland's UNIFICATION is a big cause. Maybe it has been a kind of belief of us Chinese,especially Mainland People, dating from long long ago...

By the way, I dislike we Chinese speak here like madmen. Though patriotism is involved, you should say with reasons. Your words should be convincing? You understand?

Hope you all understand me :oops: My English is poor.
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Postby RL » Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:15 am

it's so tired .
i've read these postes all above.
fifty fifty.
i don't want to comment such a topic.
it's very harmful, isn't it ?
let's stop it .discuss some other things.
ok ?

and i suggest ADMIN to this post.
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Postby Danyet » Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:27 pm

SleepyTear wrote:
I'm sorry. The websites you listed can't be opened. I don't know why. Can you copy some of the content for me? I wanna read them very much.



I don't know why you can't open these website links. They open perfectly for me. I can tell you that China's government has blocked certain websites from her citizens in parts of China. Perhaps this is the case here.

Is anyone else having trouble opening those site???
Last edited by Danyet on Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Danyet » Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:38 pm

OK!!! Here is the copy of the first link that I posted. It is a shame that you can't open it because it is also written in Chinese aswell as English.



http://www.hrichina.org/public/contents ... 5fid=26504

Press Advisory: Further Crackdown on Petitioner Mao Hengfeng and Others in Beijing and Shanghai

January 03, 2006
Human Rights in China (HRIC) has learned that a number of Shanghai petitioners have been detained in Beijing and Shanghai, with several being beaten and mistreated.

According to HRIC sources, on the afternoon of December 28, veteran petitioner Mao Hengfeng and several dozen other petitioners were detained in Beijing by police when they went to view the ceremonial lowering of the flag in Tiananmen Square. Mao and her two daughters, along with fellow petitioners Zhang Cuizhi and Zhang Xueying, were forcibly taken to Beijing's Tianhai Reception Center that evening, while the other petitioners were immediately put onto the next train back for Shanghai. Among the latter group, Sun Xicheng, He Guoguang and others were reportedly beaten by Shanghai “retriever” officials in charge of intercepting petitioners (jiefang renyuan). Sun suffered a concussion as a result of his beating.

According to information received by HRIC, Mao was reportedly dragged by her feet down a flight of stairs by three special police agents. She and her daughters, along with Zhang Cuizhi and Zhang Xueying, were forced to return to Shanghai by train on the evening of December 29. Attempts were made to contact Mao through her cellular phone, but communication was interrupted by a person identified as one of these “retriever” officials from Shanghai's Yangpu District.

Following her arrival in Shanghai on December 30, Mao immediately returned to Beijing with her daughters, but early on the morning of January 1 she was detained once again and forcibly returned to Shanghai, where she and her daughters were taken directly to the Yangpu District dispatch station. Mao's daughters were released that afternoon, but Mao remains under the illegal custody of the Daqiao neighborhood municipal office. When her husband telephoned the neighborhood office, an official surnamed Jiang reportedly told him that Mao would not be returning home for three or four more days.

In addition, sources told HRIC that on December 15, petitioners Zhou Xiudi, Chen Zonglai, Wu Yuping, Jin Huijun and others have been placed under criminal detention on charges of "disturbing public order" by Shanghai Hongkou public security authorities for their participation in a petition to the Shanghai municipal committee conference. On December 22, Shanghai petitioner Ma Yalian was also detained by local police and neighborhood committee members and held until December 28 without her family being allowed information of her whereabouts.

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Postby Danyet » Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:47 pm

Here is the copy from the second link. It is a letter from the Director of the Asia Division of Human rights Watch addressed to president Bush asking for help concerning issues in China.
http://hrw.org/english/docs/2005/11/16/china12043.htm



November 16, 2005

The Honorable George W. Bush
The White House
1600 Pennsylvania Ave., N.W.
Washington, DC 20500

Re: Your Trip to China November 19-20,2005

Dear Mr. President:

We write to urge that during your visit to China on November 19-20, 2005, you take up China’s dismal human rights record in all your meetings and public appearances. We appreciate the statements you made today in Tokyo about the need for China to allow more political freedoms and to increase political openness and the pace of reform. It is important that you place these issues at the top of the agenda during your meetings with President Hu Jintao and Premier Wen Jiabao.

We appreciate the attention your administration has given to human rights issues such as religious freedom and the release of political prisoners in China. However, we are concerned that the human rights situation has fallen on the list of priorities in the U.S.-China bilateral relationship in recent years. We hope that your statements in Tokyo reflect a considered decision to refocus the relationship with China on human rights and pluralism.

The human rights situation in China continues to be dire and, in many respects, has worsened in recent months, with crackdowns on dissidents, human rights activists, lawyers, and journalists. While there had been high expectations for the administration of President Hu Jintao and Prime Minister Wen Jiabao, most Chinese have been disappointed with his lack of action on human rights. We urge you to ask President Hu and Prime Minister Wen what their specific commitments to human rights are and how and when they will be implemented.

Across China today, human rights abuses are fuelling rising social unrest. Indeed, China’s stability in the 21st century, and the role it plays in the international community, will depend in great measure on the extent to which it gives its people lawful, peaceful democratic outlets to express their opinions, pursue their aims, and create public accountability. Without the rule of law based on recognized human rights principles, even China’s economic progress will ultimately be fragile.

You have made democratization one of the foreign policy priorities of your presidency. While there have been some developments in village elections––punctuated by attacks on activists who threaten local communist party power bases (for example, when activist Lu Banglie was beaten in front of an international journalist on October 8)––there is no sign that the Chinese leadership is even considering national elections. While we do not suggest that elections can be organized overnight, there is no reason that China cannot begin planning for national elections. This is a subject that is almost never brought up by international leaders in face-to-face talks with the Chinese leadership. Yet no serious explanation has even been offered why China should be a singular exception to this most basic of principles.

The right to take part in the conduct of public affairs is widely recognized in international law, including the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, the International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination, and the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women. All these instruments make it clear that citizens have the right to vote and to be elected by universal and equal suffrage. As you said in your speech in Japan, this is not a western idea, it is universal, as demonstrated in the many democracies of Asia. We see no reason why more than one billion Chinese citizens should not have the elemental right to choose their leaders. This trip would be a good time to end the international silence on this subject.

This is a particularly important time to raise this subject, as last month the Chinese government issued a white paper, Building of Political Democracy in China, that makes it clear that China will remain a one-party state.

We also urge you to address China’s longstanding habit of releasing one or more political prisoners before or after important meetings. Although the release of a prisoner, especially one who should never have been imprisoned, is a welcome event, we urge that you recognize the gesture for what it is: a public relations stunt that does nothing to address China's continued willingness to imprison dissenters. Should a release or releases occur, we hope you will recognize the “revolving door” quality of China’s prisoner releases––for every prisoner released as a gift to a visiting dignitary, one or more others are then arrested––and insist that no new arrests be carried out to fill the emptied prison bed. We urge that you make this point publicly.

There are many other serious human rights issues that we also urge you to raise on your trip. Please see our letter of August 29, 2005, raising these concerns. We attach the letter here as an appendix.

Thank you for your consideration of these concerns.

Yours sincerely,

Brad Adams
Executive Director
Asia Division


August 29, 2005

The Honorable George W. Bush
The White House
1600 Pennsylvania Ave. NW
Washington, DC 20500
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