future of EU

[Rach]

if I can convince one person to be positive... well you decide what that's worth!

You just convinced me to be positive...

[LadyMacbeth]

Hello again:)
Before I start I would like to remind that my main purpose of writing on Englishclub.com is brushing up English - not raising eaither reali-life or virtual...riots;)

So to answer some of your accusations:

Dear LadyMacbeth, what are you expecting of the EU and the western countries to do? You're accusing but as far as I can recognize you don't bring up any solutions, either? Perhaps there are no quick solutions? Of course it is all about money, in the economy and the politics everything is about money. Of course the countries of the EU are all looking for their own sake, but "sake" in this discussion means a well working economy. Look, when the eastern countries develop and improve their economy and the people begin to have more money, this is also in the interest of the EU, because they can export and sell their own products in those countries too, as an example. It is simply not true to say the EU is just looking for cheap labour force, this would not help them at all!

I have to say that I am SCARED of EU. I am just scared. I am euro sceptic. I have always been.
Well.. I don't believe in EU charity. I don't believe in everlasting EU charity even more. I am aware that everything inside EU goes around money and economy. Somehow, however, Switzerland doesn't need any EU to have strong economy. So maybe we should explain what does economy mean?
What I am scared of (I havenot voted for EU when there was national poll about it in Poland. I simply didn't go to vote at all then) is that EU in its whole lack of ideas what to do in future with whole this mess called EU has no doubt much more creative ideas about it than my ... own government. There are plenty of clercks who are employed within structures of EU, they earn fine salaries so they simply have to make up new targets and right ideas to prove that they are worthy to be still paid the money they earn now.
You know...this kind of mess...
Now your plot about producting goods to trade with.
That's a very good idea but how do you want to do it in contemporary Poland?
We (Poland) have a decreasing birth rate, no immgration of course (in any meaningful size at least) and due to multiple reforms as well as due to greed, short-sighteness and our national inborn stupidity our national educational system is practically as devasted as industry is (my private opinion).
So because pupils don't learn nowadays, cosequently they are very badly educated, so how they will be in future skilled enough to produce anything?
You think it can be possible?
I doubt.
Thus I am so scared of EU cause there are many smart people there and they will use all flaws within my country to make their profits on it due to our own ineffectiveness and lack of defending-skills, producing-skills etc.
Summing up my letter in this plot – I think I am much more interested in future of Polnad than my own government.
But because I don’t take their money – I will rather finish my message in this place wishing everyone a good day.

LM

[jeffcox]

LadyMacbeth, I understand that you're scared of Europe. Anybody who loves their country is. In Britain, when the EEC (as it was known back then)was being set up, they promised that it wouldn't lead to loss of sovereignty. They knew, even then, that it would. They lied to the population.

The English court is no longer in control of it's own judgements... everybody goes to the European Court for a higher judgement... making everything longer and more beaurocratic.

It's a two-edged sword that cuts both ways!

If Poland is in such a bad state as you say, then people will take advantage of Poland anyway! So Poland will lose out, if they're in the EU or out of it.

Being in has some advantages. There are initiatives to promote education and health. Many of these initiatives are not made public knowledge so most people are not even aware of them. There is a constant battle to normalize such public systems, whereby most countries would have to dedicate themselves to improving their systems.

Personally, I'm against the European Union! Purely on patriotic grounds... I'd like Britain to remain British. I wouldn't like to have a European flag on my passport and I love the Pound Sterling. But I do recognize that Europe has a lot to offer as a 'community' and not as a 'federal union' as most Euro-ministers would like.

I am pro European Community, though!

[LadyMacbeth]

Hello:)

The English court is no longer in control of it's own judgements... everybody goes to the European Court for a higher judgement... making everything longer and more beaurocratic.

Here is the same:( People e-mail to EU institutions to complain about lags and neglects of Polish clerks and important institutions.
I think they only worsen all things this way:(
I mean - national government should feel guilty and be ashamed or responsible for many things but they aren't.
So I think in such case any complaints higher don't make too much sense at all:(

Look into Polish history - it doesn't matter who ruled here - left wing /right wing or...both wing political parties some problems have never been solved in the right way:(
And EU will use it against me in future - at least I would do it if I were EU:(
You can say - "you aren't a patriot". I think I am a big patriot. But...somehow it happened that at the age of 25 I stopped going to vote. Because I feel cheated till today. I feel being permamently cheated by my own government about the real state of this country. Is joing EU its biggest success? So what is its biggest failure and how to solve it? Unemployment? Emigration the only solution? It sounds like... Hitler's "the final solution" .
So if the only solution for me is leaving MY country to have money to live so in fact I don't live in any country at all and thus - consequently - I can refuse going into any national voting when my capital is in Brussel nowadays and it is the biggest success of my country in this decade at least

If Poland is in such a bad state as you say, then people will take advantage of Poland anyway! So Poland will lose out, if they're in the EU or out of it.

This is a very complicated issue. Really complicated.
I think some gains we have - some roads are repaired, farmers get money - so we can see some help (for the poorest of the poor too).
But what next? We have government nin Warsaw, they need my taxes to have their salaries. One day EU will come to conclusion they do more for this country than the government in Warsaw and what will be then? A war? A war on taxes? There were some wars on taxes in history. Let's look into US. 3 years before starting their independent life Great Britain and the colonies were in the biggest friendship. 3 years after - war on taxes and total splitting for ever:(

Being in has some advantages. There are initiatives to promote education and health.

- my answer in this place.
Of course joing EU by now has many advantages but how do they promote education and health here?
I would like to know more details.

I'd like Britain to remain British.

I wouldn't care about Britain that could eventually lose its British character. Brits have always been Brits and they will always be. I care much more about Poland. But it seems to me better to care about me myself in this all EU mess cause me myself is the closest object to me to care about.

Read you soon,
LM

[wllsp]

Is joing EU its biggest success? So what is its biggest failure and how to solve it? Unemployment? Emigration the only solution? It sounds like...

Well, to me it looks like a big success for your country. Take a look at Turkey. It wants to become a member of EU but EU still is not ready for this. So, anyway, it seems to be good at least for your country. And also it's clear that you have not yet benefited from joining EU.

So if the only solution for me is leaving MY country to have money to live so in fact I don't live in any country at all and thus - consequently - I can refuse going into any national voting when my capital is in Brussel nowadays and it is the biggest success of my country in this decade at least

Look, aren't you overacting to this situation? Of course it's great if one finds a job at home. However it's OK at least to have an opportunity to work in other European countres. Here in Russia there was a huge recession back in 90's and lots of people looked for work in other countries.

[LadyMacbeth]

Hello:)

Well, to me it looks like a big success for your country. Take a look at Turkey. It wants to become a member of EU but EU still is not ready for this. So, anyway, it seems to be good at least for your country. And also it's clear that you have not yet benefited from joining EU.

Well... somehow it seem to me that things are more about illusion of success than about any real success.
I think Poland is a kind of easter barrier/safety bufor for EU community that is scared of powerful Russia that isn't definitely interested in any EU at all.
You know - taking us they can catch some gangs of international (Polish-Russian) car thieves and try to solve some other problems. Some people have interesting, blood-freezing job.

I can notice they care about quality of their food very much and generally they promote health and education but in their own countries.

Turkey is bit further than Poland. Besides they
represent different culture and religion. They like suiciders. I think EU will not be ready for a long time to take them into their God chosen community unless.... and here I would rather pause cause I don't want to be accused for supporting any acts of terrorism

Of course it's great if one finds a job at home. However it's OK at least to have an opportunity to work in other European countres.

Well... when you get a better job for better money than in your own country it can be a real pleasure to leave it one day. But to leave in order to get a job that you could do in your country for better money or (what is the most frequent these days) doing worse job that you could do in your country having your skills for better money that you could earn for doing more sklled job in your country... hmmm.... does it make any sense?
It is wasting productive strenght or how they call it. And stopping civilisational progress I think .

Who is blame for it?

[LadyMacbeth]

seems

[wllsp]

Well... somehow it seem to me that things are more about illusion of success than about any real success.

According to some statistics there are some results. "... surging exports to the EU contributed to Poland's strong growth in 2004" and "Poland stands to benefit from nearly $23.2 billion in EU funds, available through 2006. "
https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/pl.html
I wonder what you think about these facts?

I think Poland is a kind of easter barrier/safety bufor for EU community that is scared of powerful Russia

I don't see the point in this sort of barrier. We are not in the cold war anymore. What kind of infiltration do you think it protects from ?

I think EU will not be ready for a long time to take them into their God chosen community unless....

I agree. There are way to many issues. For example they seized the part of Cyprus which is a EU country.

But to leave in order to get a job that you could do in your country for better money or (what is the most frequent these days) doing worse job that you could do in your country having your skills for better money that you could earn for doing more sklled job in your country... hmmm.... does it make any sense?
Who is blame for it?

Of course, it doesn't make any sense.

But I meant that it would be great to have an opportunity to find a job abroad. As far as I know Poland have had high unemplyment since 1989, long before becoming member of EU. And after joing EU lots of Polish workers managed to find jobs in other EU countries.

I perfectly understand that their first jobs might be not ones they had dreamed of, but they agreed to do them probably because they think it was just the first step in the right direction. Ten years ago I was ready to do the same because we had rather bad economic situation here in Russia. However I had no right to work in EU and as result I had a lot of difficulties in finding a job abroad. So I still think that becoming a member of EU is good to many Polish people.

[LadyMacbeth]

Hi Russia:)

I perfectly understand that their first jobs might be not ones they had dreamed of, but they agreed to do them probably because they think it was just the first step in the right direction. Ten years ago I was ready to do the same because we had rather bad economic situation here in Russia. However I had no right to work in EU and as result I had a lot of difficulties in finding a job abroad. So I still think that becoming a member of EU is good to many Polish people.

EU surely could be a very big advantage for Poland but... but... but...and here I will pause because of many reasons:(

I am from Poland but I am a voice of the eagle who sounds like - Where is a place for Polish state in the mess you can read beneath. Why Polish people cannot unite around daily problems and try to fight THEM together instead of fighting against each other.
Unfortunatelly noone has a business to make people here more reasonable. They also don't need to be more on on earth than in the air, I am afraid

Bush and Putin
Cheers from Silesia to all EC members- Silesia - far from Warsaw,
LM

[wllsp]

Hi!

Why Polish people cannot unite around daily problems and try to fight THEM together instead of fighting against each other.

It sounds like your country has no national ideas which might unite the nation, doesn't it? Interestingly I can't say here in Russia we have sort of this. But there were lot of them back in the time of the USSR. And I feel that many of them were false. So I feel it's not a bad idea not to care a lot about having or not having things that can unite a nation.