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Pakistan delays rape reform plans Pakistan's government has delayed presenting a bill in parliament which would have reformed rape laws.
But following complaints from Islamic and secular parties the government says it will now re-draft its proposals to create more of a consensus.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/5337752.stm
The Hudood Ordinance criminalises all sex outside marriage, so if a rape victim fails to present four male witnesses to the crime she herself could face punishment and be prosecuted for adultery.
The government says that makes it almost impossible to prosecute a rape case.

danyet wrote:Pakistan delays rape reform plans Pakistan's government has delayed presenting a bill in parliament which would have reformed rape laws.
But following complaints from Islamic and secular parties the government says it will now re-draft its proposals to create more of a consensus.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/5337752.stm
The Hudood Ordinance criminalises all sex outside marriage, so if a rape victim fails to present four male witnesses to the crime she herself could face punishment and be prosecuted for adultery.
The government says that makes it almost impossible to prosecute a rape case.

No much wonder so many of these people escape their own countries and look for refuse somewhere else. This almost made me sick. Woman in these countries don't have any rights at all. I wouldn't last five minutes there. I would buy a GUN yes a GUN Danyet and take matters into my hands if I had to put up with this type of s...t!!!!

Shazzam wrote: I wouldn't last five minutes there. I would buy a GUN yes a GUN Danyet and take matters into my hands if I had to put up with this type of s...t!!!!

Same here It's a big feeling of impotence since we can't do anything.

Dixie wrote:

Shazzam wrote: I wouldn't last five minutes there. I would buy a GUN yes a GUN Danyet and take matters into my hands if I had to put up with this type of s...t!!!!

Same here It's a big feeling of impotence since we can't do anything.

Why are some countries so far behind others? My opinion is the UN should be trying to uniform all CIVIL RIGHTS not just some. STUFF customs; LETS GET REAL we are talking about HUMAN rights. Aren't WOMEN human? This just makes me so mad. Most women work harder than men; why do you think they call childbirth LABOR for godsake. Then after you have raised that child you are expected to work like a horse to raise the child, look after the family, and in most cultures become a working (pay wise) part of the community.

Wow I could go on forever~!!!

The UN is incapable of doing anything about anything so don't look to them. They sat and watched in Rawanda, remember!

You need to address the root of the problem. This attitude is bred into them by their culture. And what is the main influence in their culture?

That's right, you guessed it. Their religion.
Do something about that.

If one group tries to impose their ideals on another... all ~ breaks out.

If one group tries this... they're insulted for being imperialistic.

If they do nothing... they're insulted for doing nothing.

It's a no-win situation for anybody who does anything by force in any country other than their own.

Anybody who thinks that the UN can just go in there, change what they want, and then leave, is poorly informed. Rwanda had the complication of internal civil unrest between the Tutsi and the Hutu groups. It's funny how the problem is always blamed on the UN and not those factions who have been fighting each other for about 600 years.

As for the UN, it's a US puppet. The UN can do nothing without US support. The US didn't want to get involved, and the British lacked courage... the French... well, that's another story.

The question is, whose job is it to police the entire planet?

As for what we can do... make every case an international scandal. The Iranian government have already made many retreats on death sentences because they were internationally embarrassed.

http://www.myspace.com/savenazanin

Write to the Pakistani ambassador in your country. Get involved with Amnesty International.. etc.

jeffcox wrote:If one group tries to impose their ideals on another... all ~ breaks out.

If one group tries this... they're insulted for being imperialistic.

If they do nothing... they're insulted for doing nothing.

It's a no-win situation for anybody who does anything by force in any country other than their own.

Anybody who thinks that the UN can just go in there, change what they want, and then leave, is poorly informed. Rwanda had the complication of internal civil unrest between the Tutsi and the Hutu groups. It's funny how the problem is always blamed on the UN and not those factions who have been fighting each other for about 600 years.

As for the UN, it's a US puppet. The UN can do nothing without US support. The US didn't want to get involved, and the British lacked courage... the French... well, that's another story.

The question is, whose job is it to police the entire planet?

As for what we can do... make every case an international scandal. The Iranian government have already made many retreats on death sentences because they were internationally embarrassed.

http://www.myspace.com/savenazanin

Write to the Pakistani ambassador in your country. Get involved with Amnesty International.. etc.

I am well aware that the UN is useless; I was just making a point that they should have these sort of rights. I mean what good are they (pretty much nothing these days). When the US basically told them that they were going to do what they wanted ( a few years ago) it became apparent that they have the same power as a sales attendant at McDonalds.

I am just saying that this is the sort of role that they should be playing. I don't know what the answer is. Maybe the answer is stay away from countries like these and if you live there and you don't like it leave. The problem is that as we know it is a hard road for most refugees (it isn't that easy to leave).

I over estimated you if you believe that UN is USA's puppet. You have not been paying too much attention. USA wants to pull out of the UN. No one blames UN for the problems. They do say that UN is ineffective though. That is quite different. The Un has been taken over by countries that have traditionaly been plagued by totalitarian and human rights issues. The UN is no longer the good guys that is why many Americans want out of it.

danyet wrote:I over estimated you if you believe that UN is USA's puppet. You have not been paying too much attention. USA wants to pull out of the UN. No one blames UN for the problems. They do say that UN is ineffective though. That is quite different. The Un has been taken over by countries that have traditionaly been plagued by totalitarian and human rights issues. The UN is no longer the good guys that is why many Americans want out of it.

Oh hello the penny has dropped. Wow I thought you would have paid more attention. That is exactly what I was saying. Basically the US said they weren't going to listen to anything that they had to say etc. etc. It is also a well know fact that they haven't paid their "subscription fees" for yonks.

Obviously they don't want anything to do with the UN.

First point: The US want out because it's bad image to go against the UN - it simply makes them look bad. They will do what they want anyway, so go independent and eliminate one negative aspect and remove the need to debate with a group of people who take forever to make a decision!

Second: Who said the UN should police the world? That's the problem. When you impose your will on a country by force, it is no longer resolved by a war. The new strategy is terrorism. This isn't defeated by war and guns, you have to destroy the reasoning and the motivation for terrorism, and that's a long-term process.

Each country must be responsible for its own policing. Imagine if one group could invade your country when they think you're not doing a good job.

Therefore, there needs to be very strict control over when and why one force should intervene in the internal politics of another country.

Look at UN activity in Africa, as an example. There has been little UN intervention in African countries when human rights violations have occurred. Why? My guess is that Africa doesn't have much to offer the US. Asia, on the contrary, has a lot of oil that the US does like a lot.

They say that the UN is ineffective because it often goes against US decisions or takes a long time to make the decision that the US wants. The UN was never the 'Good Guys'... that's my point! I overestimate you if you believe that the UN doesn't and has never had its own interests at heart.

Therefore, who is to intervene, if all those with power abuse it to further their own interests?

Back to the Rape issue; Write to the ambassador of that country. Write to your local news network, write to Amnesty International. Make a noise. Often, countries get embarrassed about their internal politics when such news becomes international.

When they begin to feel ashamed, they show their own citizens that it is wrong... then you're changing the motivation and philosophy of the people. Then, real change can take place.

It takes time. But another war is the answer? Must the UN invade any country that they consider does something wrong?

jeffcox wrote:First point: The US want out because it's bad image to go against the UN - it simply makes them look bad.

Some US politicians think that it looks worse to leave the UN. That is the main reason why US still there. That and, we don't want to leave our allies Britain, Australia etc "hanging'.

jeffcox wrote: Second: Who said the UN should police the world?

What do you think it was formed for in the first place? To keep order!

Formed to keep order... more to protect certain interests.

The US is still in the UN to maintain certain allied ties, this is true. But the US is becoming more and more unilateral. They need, less and less, the positive support of such allies.

But anyway, this is politics (forbidden subject) and digresses from the thread's subject.

If you were to leave out the idea of military intervention, what other suggestions would you offer?

Would economic sanctions change anything? North Korea and Cuba have shown that this doesn't work and that it only punishes and tortures the population more.

If we consider that we have to take action against any country that violates human rights, then almost every country would have to be invaded... including the US and Britain.

What other solutions are possible, even taking more time to change the situation in Pakistan, or any other country?

this thread must be blocked i think

jeffcox wrote: But anyway, this is politics (forbidden subject) and digresses from the thread's subject.

Actually this subjct, like most important subjects, can be traced all the way to a relgious theme. Every thinking person eventually ponders the question, "Where did i come from?"
and it is how that question is answered that decides how we live our lives.

There are only two possible answers to this question.
1. I made accidently myself. ie Evolution

2. I was created purposely. ie Some kind of Creator.

Each answer will set you on a separate path.

The answer you choose for yourself will determine how you live your life affecting every single decision you make.......! Including politics!

jeffcox wrote: If you were to leave out the idea of military intervention, what other suggestions would you offer?

The answer should be obvious from my opening post. Military intervention can not change peoples customs and religion. Tradition and religion is the real enemy here. The spread of the new religion of Christianity is what civilized all of Europe to the cannibals of New Guinea. It will take the same to civilize these people,too.

jeffcox wrote: If we consider that we have to take action against any country that violates human rights, then almost every country would have to be invaded... including the US and Britain.

To include USA and Britain in your argument is just silly, unless you want to bring USA's treatment of American Indians and British colonialism into it. And that would be silly too because that is not NOW!

No, you didn't answer the question of what to do about it.

You mentioned 'do something about their religion'.
But, no suggestion.

Give something more substantial, that can be specified. You have the goal, but you haven't given the means to arrive there. So, what do you suggest?

To include the US and Britain is not silly at all. They are both abusing human rights as we speak - we're not talking about generations ago. So, how can it be silly to include them in the argument? How do we choose which countries should be allowed to commit HR abuses and which ones should be stopped? Not only who chooses, but also how do they choose?

Raping is so horrible, even here in Germany cowards also rape innocent girls very often. The law must be set harder to punish such guys.

Admiral, I agree.
Rape happens wherever. It depends on the character of each man. Even where such things are not tollerated, it still happens. It happens much less, but it still happens.

In places where it is 'tollerated' more openly because of various factors it is difficult to combat. But it is somthing that must be defeated by peaceful means. Even if that means a long and difficult struggle.

I think that people have to manifest their disgust at such acts. People from all around the world. Make such countries feel ashamed and through this we can change their customs.

zaman wrote: