EnglishClub
Home Learn English Teach English MyEnglishClub Home Learn English Teach English MyEnglishClub

Please note that these ESL Forums are NOT part of MyEnglishClub. To post at these ESL Forums please register ↑ first.

About Bible

Post or ask for ideas and opinions about different subjects here.

Moderators: Vega, EC

Postby jeffcox » Sat Sep 16, 2006 4:00 am

Yeah, and for this reason I frown at anyone who says the Bible is the word of God. Those words are so elusive and their meaning is so fickle. :?
jeffcox
Gold Member
 
Posts: 456
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2006 4:54 am
Location: England - Brazil

Postby Lalee » Mon Sep 18, 2006 8:26 pm

LennyeTran wrote:
But I believe there are people who could go to heaven without acknowledging Jesus as a savior, though. What about Buddhist monks, rabis, or other members of any monastic orders beside Christians? Where would they go, heaven or hell? :?

You're still asking the same question after I gave you all that info?? What's wrong with you? :shock: :wink:
According to the Bible, yeah those people are not allowed to heaven. It doesn't matter if it's a monk or the president or a rabi etc.
I know you don't believe it but that's how it is.
User avatar
Lalee
Rough Diamond Member
 
Posts: 1341
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 2:53 am
Location: Peru

Postby Lalee » Mon Sep 18, 2006 8:37 pm

jeffcox wrote:Hmm... I have never met anyone who believes in everything in the Bible, as it is written in the Bible. Not one person! But then, I've never met the Pope!

I don't think the Pope believes in all what the Bible says.


jeffcox wrote:Genesis 3:16
"Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee."

Personally, I find this idea outrageous and can't understand how a woman would agree to this. We are to follow this scripture and believe that women should be subservient to men?

I know what you mean but again people can't understand God fully or what He does.
As I said before, I think it's better to be His ally rather than His enemy.
User avatar
Lalee
Rough Diamond Member
 
Posts: 1341
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 2:53 am
Location: Peru

Postby MissLT » Mon Sep 18, 2006 8:42 pm

Lalee wrote:
LennyeTran wrote:
But I believe there are people who could go to heaven without acknowledging Jesus as a savior, though. What about Buddhist monks, rabis, or other members of any monastic orders beside Christians? Where would they go, heaven or hell? :?

You're still asking the same question after I gave you all that info?? What's wrong with you? :shock: :wink:
According to the Bible, yeah those people are not allowed to heaven. It doesn't matter if it's a monk or the president or a rabi etc.
I know you don't believe it but that's how it is.

And that's why I was asking you, how sure are you to say that the Bible hasn't been changed? :wink:
User avatar
MissLT
Ethereal Member
 
Posts: 5911
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2005 3:05 pm
Status: Other

Postby Lalee » Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:01 pm

LennyeTran wrote:If you had no faith that those people would do anything good in the first place, would you trust them to do something for you? And if you had no one else to do it beside them, how sure could you say they wouldn't change a thing?

As far as I know, all the books in the Bible were written by people of God like the apostles and the prophets among others. Although they were regular men, their lives were led by God. They were God-fearing men.

LennyeTran wrote:As you said, humans can do no good. That's why we need to acknowledge Jesus to be saved. If we were born with sins and can't get rid of them, changing something in the Bible wouldn't make a big deal, right? It's a part of our already-born-with sins. Therefore, we'd get the chance to ask for forgiveness at the end, anyway. Right?

I think it would make a big deal. Ask for forgiveness at the end? When at the end?
User avatar
Lalee
Rough Diamond Member
 
Posts: 1341
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 2:53 am
Location: Peru

Postby Lalee » Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:07 pm

LennyeTran wrote:And that's why I was asking you, how sure are you to say that the Bible hasn't been changed? :wink:

I think I told you why I am sure of that in one of my previous posts.
Too bad I can't prove to you that the Bible hasn't been changed. :(
User avatar
Lalee
Rough Diamond Member
 
Posts: 1341
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 2:53 am
Location: Peru

Postby MissLT » Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:21 pm

Lalee wrote:
LennyeTran wrote:If you had no faith that those people would do anything good in the first place, would you trust them to do something for you? And if you had no one else to do it beside them, how sure could you say they wouldn't change a thing?

As far as I know, all the books in the Bible were written by people of God like the apostles and the prophets among others. Although they were regular men, their lives were led by God. They were God-fearing men.

Bible translations

As Hebrew and Greek, the original languages of the bible, have idioms and concepts not easily translated, there is an on going critical tension about whether it is better to give a word for word translation or to give a translation that gives a parallel idiom in the target language. For instance in the English language Protestant translations of the Christian bible, translations like the New Revised Standard Version and the New American Standard Version are seen as more "word for word" translations, whereas translations like the New International Version and New Living Version attempt to give relevant parallel idioms. The Living Bible and The Message are two paraphrases of the bible that try to convey the original meaning in contemporary language. The further away one gets from word to word translation, the text becomes more readable while relying more on the theological understanding of the translator. Further, both Hebrew and Greek, like some of the latin languages, use the male gender of nouns and pronouns to refer to groups that contain both sexes. This creates some difficulty in determining whether a noun should be translated using terms that refer to men only, or men and women inclusively. Some translations avoid the issue by directly translating the word using male only terminology, whereas others try to use inclusive language where the translators believe it to be appropriate. One translation that attempts to use inclusive language is the New Revised Standard Version.


Lalee wrote:
LennyeTran wrote:As you said, humans can do no good. That's why we need to acknowledge Jesus to be saved. If we were born with sins and can't get rid of them, changing something in the Bible wouldn't make a big deal, right? It's a part of our already-born-with sins. Therefore, we'd get the chance to ask for forgiveness at the end, anyway. Right?

I think it would make a big deal. Ask for forgiveness at the end? When at the end?

When is the end to you?
User avatar
MissLT
Ethereal Member
 
Posts: 5911
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2005 3:05 pm
Status: Other

Postby jeffcox » Mon Sep 18, 2006 11:39 pm

It has been recognized by most Bible scholars that the old testament was made up of various scrollsand before those scrolls existed, the stories were passed on by mouth, undergoing modifications through the generations and different regions.

When the scrolls were being written, the different pieces of the same story were 'patched together' into what, at that time, seemed the most logical story.

Then, when canonizing the old testament, somebody chose which scrolls were the best ones to go in - like the modern-day Harry Potter, I choose book one and book 3 - thus, undergoing more changes.

There was then one more modification when everything was translated into English.

So, three modifications at least!
And after all those modifications, who says it's the Word of God?

I really love the way that if it makes sense in the Bible, use it... if it doesn't, then it's God being more intelligent than us so we should accept it anyway, so use it. Why can't a Christian simply say, I don't understand it?

Because if they can't understand it, they cannot follow the teachings of Jesus and go to heaven. Therefore, they have to 'understand it'... because they're damned if they don't.
jeffcox
Gold Member
 
Posts: 456
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2006 4:54 am
Location: England - Brazil

Postby Lalee » Wed Sep 20, 2006 4:53 pm

LennyeTran wrote:When is the end to you?

Well there's no end to me. Although when we die on this earth, it's "the end" like a human being.
User avatar
Lalee
Rough Diamond Member
 
Posts: 1341
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 2:53 am
Location: Peru

Postby Lalee » Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:22 pm

jeffcox wrote:So, three modifications at least!
And after all those modifications, who says it's the Word of God?

Well I still think that the Bible is the word of God.

jeffcox wrote:I really love the way that if it makes sense in the Bible, use it... if it doesn't, then it's God being more intelligent than us so we should accept it anyway, so use it. Why can't a Christian simply say, I don't understand it?

There are some things that I'm sure Christians do not agree with what the Bible says. Let's take the verse you mentioned about women being subservient to men as an example. Most women might think that God is unfair but, can they change what it says there?
The only thing they can do is quitting church.
Some people see God as an unfair being but in the Bible says He's a just God but then again you don't trust in the Bible so...


jeffcox wrote:Because if they can't understand it, they cannot follow the teachings of Jesus and go to heaven. Therefore, they have to 'understand it'... because they're damned if they don't.

Jeff, from the way you write and express yourself about God I can tell you kind of despise Him. I do not know what your beliefs are but I'm sure when you were in hardships you've praid to God. So it doesn't matter the way you think of Him, you can't deny the fact that you need Him.
People can complain all the want about God but nothing will change.
User avatar
Lalee
Rough Diamond Member
 
Posts: 1341
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 2:53 am
Location: Peru

PreviousNext

Return to Ideas and Opinions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests