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Virginity

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Postby ahmedgamal » Thu Aug 24, 2006 10:54 pm

Is dignity, pride, self-respect, etc. only counted by a girl's virginity?!?!?!?!? What age are we living, I may ask?
thanks for your answer I didn't say that those values only counted by a girl's virginty but it gives the person more of those values and I said that before"you have the right to lose your virginty so I do and I have the right to choose the virgin one so you do"......about your question you, we live in the age of criticizing Ahmed gamal's opinion :lol: I was joking :D
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Postby ahmedgamal » Fri Aug 25, 2006 12:45 am

I said it’s a personal choice, nothing more, nothing less! And since it’s a personal choice
and I said I agree but me too have the right to choose a virgin women.
when the social/religious rules have been arranged in a way that your body is being considered as your husband's property, like his car or home, these ideal dream pictures don’t work that much for a woman who should obeys the rules or loses her social respect/positon or even her head!
what made you say that?are you try it?whatever happening in your soicity,maybe there are those personnels in your country but that doesn't mean that men are as this image...men and women complete each other it's not a fight and I want you to answer this question what made you say that?
I believe you should be a woman to understand what I am saying.
guess what? I tried to imagine myselfe as a woman to understand your point of view and I found out that there are two probabilities:
1-you are coplicated with men and you have no experience of treating them and it's your problem
2-your soicity have really hard customs and traditions and rules
women as a tool, a piece of meat that he can claims the ownership of it by doing sex with it.
stop thatyou also have sex with him it isn't ownership but partnership.
then why he should be so eager to be the first one who is doing it? why its so important for him if he doesnt care about my body but my own real self?
it's not important to him but important to you as for me I want to marry a virgin because she care about her dignity and self-respect so she will respect me so will I..this's the way of a happy life.
virgin or not, I am still the same person
yes and that's what I don't want. you don't respect yourself so you won't respect me and I care about my dignity. there a lot of men don't care about it and they can marry a not virgin women.
I say a man who only wants me for my virginity can goes and hangs himself from the first tree in the road!
ohh will I repeat that every day? I won't marry a woman for her virginty but for love but the girl I love will be virgin sooo I will marry the virgin women I love.
if sex is forbidden before marriage practically you cant know her from this angle. Don’t you feel a little contradictory in your statements?
I said before If you realy love him you won't mind knowing this angel because you won't leave him even if he isn't very good in sex,will you?in addition to you will be happy just because you are closer to the man you love,won't you?if you said no you don't love him.I feel a little logic
Buddy you're ignoring an important part of your girl's personality by doing this and be sure you will regret it later in your marriage.
no I do that because I care about my and her personality.
And of curse sex has its own condition, and you wont know about it until you do it.
and I will be more happy if I do it with the woman I love.
By the way, marriage is just a legal bond between two persons, it doesn’t create Love or Life. Don’t count on it that much since many marriages are like a business partnerships and nothing more. Love is different and don’t need any approval from any attorney or religious clergyman.
how you can say that? marriage is a great promise to stay with you forever at joy and sadness at bad and good. it's as you say to all the world"among all people I choose this one to be my life partner..to be my love forever"is that a business partnership? what a comment!!!!
Sorry, I really don’t get what you are saying here. maybe its me
you don't get it just because you don't want to get it. :roll:
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Postby Anahita » Fri Aug 25, 2006 3:28 am

it seems that a man have affect you badly bad. I said that before,stop think of a man as a monster who only want to capeture you inside a cage called marriage

you even don't care about what I mean.......I will go to the medical examins If my bride want I don't know there's a way to find out that. you must ask a doctor not me and I want ask you about your age and your religion. the important question did you visit Egypt before?. just out of curiosity.


Hmm, so you will take her to doctor just in case she wants this too? Have you ever asked of yourself why a woman in a healthy, safe state of mind and soul should let you take her to doc for examining her virginity? Do you know how much it is humiliating? spreading your legs in front of a doc, just for having a confirmation of others as a virgin? Did you know examining a girl's virginity was an old way in the salvation times? When they were selling girls by branding them as a more expensive body? Did you know virginity was a factor which was using mostly for punishing women? Ask of your dream girl when you find her, why she prefers to go to doctor before wedding? Maybe she doesn’t want to hear behind her back that she wasn’t faithful to you. Maybe she cant bear to be branded as a whore just because she wanted to decide for her own destination. maybe she is afraid of what is going on at the back of your mind about her? And more importantly, why she should come to doctor with you, if she knows you trust her? Can you see where is the problem? It doesn’t important what kind of experiences i have with men or what you thinking about me or have I visited your country or not, the main problem is you are trying to remain faithful to the old traditional ways while in a same time you are claiming that you believe in the higher meaning of love! You want a virgin girl, which means if a girl is not virgin than she is a bad girl, has no self respect, dignity and such. from the other side you claiming you wont take your girl to doc and it’s a horrible thing and you trust her completely because of love. So every virgin girl potentially is a great, suitable, better girl and rest of the women are $hit. Now imagine you find out that your girl isn’t virgin at marriage night! What are you going to do now? Are you going to stay at her side or not? Love some one because of her virginity or not? That's question.

And my age doesn't change any thing here and I don’t see why I should talk about it. did I ever aske of you about your life's background? Lets finish our discussion first.


I didn't say that those values only counted by a girl's virginty but it gives the person more of those values and I said that before"you have the right to lose your virginty so I do and I have the right to choose the virgin one so you do".....


Okie , fine, now you are saying virginity is not the basic element but still it gives more values to a girl. No, it doesn’t. it’s a manly fantasy that you guys have. you want to be the first one who steps inside this forbidden alter of her body and such. Yeah gives a great feeling to you guys but unfortunately virginity is just a physical condition nothing more and all these values that you are saying, belong to the higher lever of human's soul. A girl can be virgin physically but has a mind more nastier than a street whore. Yeah, its harsh cause the reality is not always like our dreams buddy.


and I said I agree but me too have the right to choose a virgin women


And who said you dont have the right for doing what you want? we are discussing about virginty not you!as I said before, what you are doing with your life isn’t my business (same about me and my life)! So go a head and find a girl who can fulfills your dreams, who cares?

what made you say that?are you try it?whatever happening in your soicity,maybe there are those personnels in your country but that doesn't mean that men are as this image...men and women complete each other it's not a fight and I want you to answer this question what made you say that?


Yes, I have seen it, I have witnessed it and I know what I am talking about. And of curse my statements have been arranged according to my experiences in my country. that’s why I am so sure about these facts since I am not talking about some fantasy pictures. I have seen what a cruelty and injustice women are getting through in my country and I am not hiding these facts by denying those. If its different at your side it doesn’t change any thing about this SIDE! These things are still happening so if you think I was unfair in my judgment go a head and deny me, I don’t care. (don’t forget, no matter how much Iran and Egypt's society are different in the ethnic, ethic and ways of life, we are still living by same religious rules since these countries are both Muslim. so basically you can see most of these horrible events can happen at your side too, due to the religious dogma's and such but I have no intention for starting a discussion about cruelty of Islam toward women here. Frankly it will take so much energy and Its just wasting time cause at the end I know you still will deny me. don’t ask how I know this tho.)

guess what? I tried to imagine myselfe as a woman to understand your point of view and I found out that there are two probabilities:
1-you are coplicated with men and you have no experience of treating them and it's your problem
2-your soicity have really hard customs and traditions and rules


your first guess is wrong. I have only problem with a bully, rude, narrow minded, backward people, no matter what is their gender. And its really funny that how you reached to this point that I have no experience about treating men. It seems you are more naive about treating women! but lets skip it since I am not about talking about my private life and I am not interested in hearing yours either.

And your second guess is right…unfortunately. But its what I mentioned above so its not new.

stop thatyou also have sex with him it isn't ownership but partnership


oh gimme a break! Partnership! How can you talk about partnership when according to your own reasoning her virginity is more important for you than her personality? Yes it can be a partnership while you share an equal share of possibilities in your life with her. When you limiting your dream girl to a Virgin or none virgin, how you can talk about equality at all? Cant you see you are generalizing women sexually? So don’t give me your $hit about love and such any more.

it's not important to him but important to you as for me I want to marry a virgin because she care about her dignity and self-respect so she will respect me so will I..this's the way of a happy life


Huh? Why my virginity should be important for me? how did you get this from my lines? i am not seeking virginity! And I don’t care if my man is virgin or not! Its guys issue not mine!

yes and that's what I don't want. you don't respect yourself so you won't respect me and I care about my dignity. there a lot of men don't care about it and they can marry a not virgin women.


What? Since when if a woman tries to live by her own free will this means disrespectful to her? Check your reasoning out one more time. Once you said that you respect sex but now if you see a girl who has done it before marriage you will insult her! It means no matter how much a woman is a great person from all other aspects, just because she has chosen her sexual way in life freely it means she is a bad person! Gee, This is really the double standards! And as I said go a head and do whatever you want! Like any one cares!

ohh will I repeat that every day? I won't marry a woman for her virginty but for love but the girl I love will be virgin sooo I will marry the virgin women I love


aha! So don’t forget to tell your beloved girl how you categorizing her personality's aspects and what's the number of her virginity. It will be so helpful for clearing any misunderstanding between you and her.

I said before If you realy love him you won't mind knowing this angel because you won't leave him even if he isn't very good in sex,will you?in addition to you will be happy just because you are closer to the man you love,won't you?if you said no you don't love him.I feel a little logic


You know what are our differences? We both know sex is important but I give to sex the same value as love while you putting it under the Love, in order to decrease the validity of it! Okie, if its how you see the world so be it. For me sex and love are two important factor which completing each other and those are from same value, like body and soul. You can't insult body because you prefer the immortality of soul more! Soul can't go one without body either! Same about Love. your feelings are going to vanish gradually if you cant satisfying your sex desires! It’s a truth not just a dream story. Go outside and see how many men are f*cking around other women while they are married because they can't be relaxed in bedroom! And most of them still claiming they love their wives but cant stay faithful to them due to the sex problems. Tell me, how much being faitfull to your wife is important to you? Isn’t it one of those values that you expect to receive it from virginity?

no I do that because I care about my and her personality.


Really? Good for her. Althought I doubt you really know her this way…

and I will be more happy if I do it with the woman I love.


Okie... *yawns*

how you can say that? marriage is a great promise to stay with you forever at joy and sadness at bad and good. it's as you say to all the world"among all people I choose this one to be my life partner..to be my love forever"is that a business partnership? what a comment!!!!


Hmm, is it me or its really looks like one of those bed time stories? Staying for ever with some one? Sharing in sadness and joy? Yeah sure, every couple want such a wonderful wishes at first but only time will show how much they are successful in turning those into real. Every boy and girl are exchanging such a vows but lets see them after 5 years living with each other and then I will let myself to call them a real couple. by the way, what you said is not marriage in my opinion. When you scarifying yourself like this for some one in order to stay with him for ever and be at his side, sharing in all his moments and helping him all the time, its Love not Marriage. Marriage is just a legal bond, a ceremony for informing others about your new role in the life, like graduating from Uni. It's nothing more, at least to me.

you don't get it just because you don't want to get it


*scoffs* I see. okie, I have said what I should and I don’t have more to add. Ciao folks and have a nice day. :)
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Postby Admiral » Fri Aug 25, 2006 9:36 am

Maybe she doesn’t want to hear behind her back that she wasn’t faithful to you. Maybe she cant bear to be branded as a whore just because she wanted to decide for her own destination. maybe she is afraid of what is going on at the back of your mind about her? And more importantly, why she should come to doctor with you, if she knows you trust her? Can you see where is the problem?


I'm imagining a scene:
Code: Select all
She:"I really have only loved you in my whole life, dear"
He: "Yeah, let's see whether [b]I[/b] love you after we are finished with the doctor."
She: "But don't you think that it's superficial? You know I love you and it's really true that I haven't slept with anybody yet."
He: "First I have to check whether you are worth to be loved"

It's appearant that he doesn't love her.

And another scene:
Code: Select all
He: "Come with me to the doctor, I need have to check you."
She: "What you have to check me? Do you love me or my that part of women's body?"
He: "But I need to be sure whether you are virgin!"
She: "If you still don't know then you know me to little. Either you know me too litte, or you only love my body, or you don't even want to know me. Because if you know me, you would be sure that I'm a virgin!

Maybe he loves her but his actions made her unable to accept him. Everybody has dignity.

how do you think about this one:
Code: Select all
He: "Girl, I have been waiting for my other half since a very long time. I haven't searched yet because I fear of being cheated. I'm not like the other guys, I don't care whether you are virgin or not, but can you say to me that you won't leave me? (and so on)"

Only a stupid virgin man says this without being 70% sure that the woman is virgin.

All example above are directed for virgin man, haha, a non-virgin man don't or should not look whether his new girlfriend is virgin.
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Postby MissLT » Fri Aug 25, 2006 4:38 pm

Anahita wrote:
No, having a good sex relationship is part of a good marriage. If your woman can't satisfying you in bedroom you will ditch her after a while and will look for other woman who can make you HAPPY!

Is this a statement or a question, Anahita? :?
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Postby MissLT » Fri Aug 25, 2006 4:52 pm

Anahita wrote:
it seems that a man have affect you badly bad. I said that before,stop think of a man as a monster who only want to capeture you inside a cage called marriage

you even don't care about what I mean.......I will go to the medical examins If my bride want I don't know there's a way to find out that. you must ask a doctor not me and I want ask you about your age and your religion. the important question did you visit Egypt before?. just out of curiosity.


Hmm, so you will take her to doctor just in case she wants this too? Have you ever asked of yourself why a woman in a healthy, safe state of mind and soul should let you take her to doc for examining her virginity? Do you know how much it is humiliating? spreading your legs in front of a doc, just for having a confirmation of others as a virgin? Did you know examining a girl's virginity was an old way in the salvation times? When they were selling girls by branding them as a more expensive body? Did you know virginity was a factor which was using mostly for punishing women? Ask of your dream girl when you find her, why she prefers to go to doctor before wedding? Maybe she doesn’t want to hear behind her back that she wasn’t faithful to you. Maybe she cant bear to be branded as a whore just because she wanted to decide for her own destination. maybe she is afraid of what is going on at the back of your mind about her? And more importantly, why she should come to doctor with you, if she knows you trust her? Can you see where is the problem? It doesn’t important what kind of experiences i have with men or what you thinking about me or have I visited your country or not, the main problem is you are trying to remain faithful to the old traditional ways while in a same time you are claiming that you believe in the higher meaning of love! You want a virgin girl, which means if a girl is not virgin than she is a bad girl, has no self respect, dignity and such. from the other side you claiming you wont take your girl to doc and it’s a horrible thing and you trust her completely because of love. So every virgin girl potentially is a great, suitable, better girl and rest of the women are $hit. Now imagine you find out that your girl isn’t virgin at marriage night! What are you going to do now? Are you going to stay at her side or not? Love some one because of her virginity or not? That's question.

I love this whole thing. You've said it so well. 8)
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Postby Anahita » Sat Aug 26, 2006 6:57 am

LennyeTran wrote:
Anahita wrote:
No, having a good sex relationship is part of a good marriage. If your woman can't satisfying you in bedroom you will ditch her after a while and will look for other woman who can make you HAPPY!

Is this a statement or a question, Anahita? :?


Well, its a statement about the nature of men and how they are dealing with sex. Although I think same thing could be told about women as well. Behind every good marriage is a good sex relationship and personally I think sex is more meaningful than just doing a physical thing. it’s a communicating way for understanding your partner better and that’s why its as important as other aspects of love.
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Postby Anahita » Sat Aug 26, 2006 6:59 am

LennyeTran wrote:I love this whole thing. You've said it so well. 8)


Grazie Len. :D Glad you like it :D
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Postby Anahita » Sat Aug 26, 2006 8:14 am

Admiral wrote:
Maybe she doesn’t want to hear behind her back that she wasn’t faithful to you. Maybe she cant bear to be branded as a whore just because she wanted to decide for her own destination. maybe she is afraid of what is going on at the back of your mind about her? And more importantly, why she should come to doctor with you, if she knows you trust her? Can you see where is the problem?


I'm imagining a scene:
Code: Select all
She:"I really have only loved you in my whole life, dear"
He: "Yeah, let's see whether [b]I[/b] love you after we are finished with the doctor."
She: "But don't you think that it's superficial? You know I love you and it's really true that I haven't slept with anybody yet."
He: "First I have to check whether you are worth to be loved"

It's appearant that he doesn't love her.

And another scene:
Code: Select all
He: "Come with me to the doctor, I need have to check you."
She: "What you have to check me? Do you love me or my that part of women's body?"
He: "But I need to be sure whether you are virgin!"
She: "If you still don't know then you know me to little. Either you know me too litte, or you only love my body, or you don't even want to know me. Because if you know me, you would be sure that I'm a virgin!

Maybe he loves her but his actions made her unable to accept him. Everybody has dignity.

how do you think about this one:
Code: Select all
He: "Girl, I have been waiting for my other half since a very long time. I haven't searched yet because I fear of being cheated. I'm not like the other guys, I don't care whether you are virgin or not, but can you say to me that you won't leave me? (and so on)"

Only a stupid virgin man says this without being 70% sure that the woman is virgin.

All example above are directed for virgin man, haha, a non-virgin man don't or should not look whether his new girlfriend is virgin.


Well said Admiral! i have seen the first and third scenes many times! cool examples 8)
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Postby Tora » Sat Aug 26, 2006 1:30 pm

Well it seems to me to be more a deal of brain than any traditions' and religions' following. When a girl is feeling ready to lose her virginity the whole process as someone has named it comes to the culmination. I am a virgin still and don't know whether I should be feeling proud or shy - I don't care about common opinion, that's my desicion not to start senceless and loveless contacts just because somebody thinks that being a virgin nowadays is a capital crime. It has nothing with my orthodox christianity I belong to only on paper. That's it.
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