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About Bible

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Postby MissLT » Thu Sep 21, 2006 11:41 pm

Rach wrote: But I think we all believe in something, if it's only life for itself, the nature, the humans or whatever, then perhaps atheism doesn't exist at all?

This is exactly why I don't think there's no such thing as atheism. By definition, atheism is

Atheism:

–noun 1. the doctrine or belief that there is no God.
2. disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.

If you believe there is no God, then by definition it's atheism. However, you "believe," so how could it be a "non-belief" at all? You do believe in something. It's just that it's not God. Buddhists don't believe in God, but people do call it a "religion." Therefore, atheism, by all means, is a religion to me, a religion of not believing in God. :twisted:
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Postby Danyet » Thu Sep 21, 2006 11:41 pm

jeffcox wrote:
I did use the word 'change' once and I would have prefered the word 'modified' in that I believe exact translations are not possible in all aspects of any language.


Part of the reason for my post on "change' is for the benefit of those in the Muslims Middle East forum who believe that the Bible was changed by the Jews. This is clearly NOT THE CASE.

This is an extremely important for Muslims because if the Bible was not change then it proves Mohammed was a fake!
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Postby Rach » Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:17 am

LennyeTran wrote:Yeah, they don't believe in reincarnation because it's a very dangerous idea. If one could come back one life after another, what would be the point of the Judgement Day? What would be the point of believing in Jesus as a savior? Etc.

Exactly :wink:. The catholic church in the first centuries actually believed in reincarnation, a fact that really surprised me. They changed it in some strange council, don't remember when this happened exactly. The Essenes believed in reincarnation, too, and because some historians assume a link between Jesus and the Essenes, I really believe that what is written in the bible or part of the teaching of today's christian churches, is not quite the same that Jesus actually teached.

How ironic! Getting punished because of worshipping different religions.

Yeah, it's very sad. So much people got killed (or still get killed) in the name of God/Allah or however they call him. In the name of god... how ironic.
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Postby MissLT » Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:23 am

Rach wrote:Exactly :wink:. The catholic church in the first centuries actually believed in reincarnation, a fact that really surprised me. They changed it in some strange council, don't remember when this happened exactly.

I remember asking my teacher why. He said it was because of money. And he laughed. So I'm not quite sure if he was joking about it or it was real true. :?
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Postby jeffcox » Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:34 am

I think that there is no God. That is my statement.
Call it belief, call it opinion... call it what you will. I'm not going to fight over the exact wording as I'm a self-confessed lethargic non-believer.

As far as I am concerned, there is no God. I think that qualifies me as a trainee athieist! :?

LennyeTran: If God existed, I really wouldn't like him anyway. I've seen too much pain and suffering to believe that it's all for our 'spiritual good'. And even then, I've lived a pretty comfortable life.

When people can't explain what happens in life through the Bible, they say 'the ways of God are beyond those who are below Him' or some such idea.
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Postby Rach » Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:42 am

LennyeTran wrote:I remember asking my teacher why. He said it was because of money. And he laughed. So I'm not quite sure if he was joking about it or it was real true. :?

Wasn't it everything about money in the church? :lol: I think you have pointed out the reasons very good, if there was such a thing like reincarnation, why should anybody need Jesus as a saviour? I looked what Wikipedia sais to all that and I found that council, it was the second council of Constantinople:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_and_reincarnation

Origen, an early Christian theologian who lived during the third century, wrote that "The soul has neither beginning nor end. [They] come into this world strengthened by the victories or weakened by the defeats of their previous existence" (De Principiis). This belief was not unique to Origen; early Christians believed that the soul exists prior to the conception and birth of a person, a belief that many then-popular variants of Greek philosophy accepted....

In AD 553, more than three hundred years after Origen's death, the Emperor Justinian issued an edict against Origen, whose writings had by then become very divisive, and convened the Second Council of Constantinople. This Council issued "The Anathemas Against Origen". The first sentence reads, "If anyone asserts the fabulous pre-existence of souls, and shall assert the monstrous restoration which follows from it: let him be anathema."....

The decision of the Second Council of Constantinople regarding the pre-existence of souls has never been disputed since by traditional Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant theologians and mainstream denominations.
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Postby Danyet » Sat Sep 23, 2006 4:49 am

What the Catholic councils agreed to or disagreed on is of little importance to Christianity because they are not an authority on Christianity. They are simply a political organization as corupt as anything else.

CHristianity is between one person and his Creator. That's all!
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Postby Lalee » Sat Sep 23, 2006 6:08 pm

jeffcox wrote:Anyway, I love your ideas and the fact that we can debate them. I hope that my comments do not offend you, or my choice of expression. If I did, it was not my intention.
It's great to debate these issues, I'm learning a lot from everybody's comments.

Jeff, your comments never offended me so don't worry. Actually it's interesting to know how some people think about God.
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Postby Lalee » Sat Sep 23, 2006 6:11 pm

LennyeTran wrote:That means you don't believe in the Judgment Day? :?

Of course I do. That's written in the Bible. The Judgment Day is not the end. You know that our souls are eternal, right? So if our body dies, our souls have to go somewhere and live in that place forever. So what's the end? I'd say there's no end.
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Postby Danyet » Sat Sep 23, 2006 8:06 pm

Lalee wrote:
LennyeTran wrote:That means you don't believe in the Judgment Day? :?

Of course I do. That's written in the Bible. The Judgment Day is not the end. You know that our souls are eternal, right? So if our body dies, our souls have to go somewhere and live in that place forever. So what's the end? I'd say there's no end.

Nowhere in the Bible is it written that the soul is immortal. It is written that "The soul that sinneth dies"!!!


Your idea that the soul lives forever is from Greek pagans and adopted by the Roman Catholics in the 3rd century.
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