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Post by Guest » Tue Mar 22, 2005 5:05 am

Sorry, I can't help; I'm not good at compound sentences. Why don't you go to help desk to ask Alan. He definitely has the answer. Good luck. ;)

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Re: I can't log in the help desk

Post by Guest » Tue Mar 22, 2005 5:48 am

imnoabrainer wrote:Thanks simply,

I tried but failed to log in to help desk. It seems that this is the only forum I have access to. :evil:

Can any one explain to me why? bty, I have sent a PM to the moderator of this forum asking him the same question and am waiting for his reply.

Perhaps newbies like me need to earn some brownie points before we are allowed access to other treasures; I am prepared to sweat for those points though.
If that's the case, send a PM to Josef to direct your problem of log in into help desk. Or you can send your PM to Alan. I have never done that so I don't know if we're allowed to do it or not. Just ask Josef. Again, good luck. ;)

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Post by GiddyGad » Tue Mar 22, 2005 9:14 am

K imnobrainer, have you muddied the waters further!
What's the question?
Give examples for both definitions, will you. If not answer your question, some might be interested and puzzle their wits together with you.
Last edited by GiddyGad on Tue Mar 22, 2005 12:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: I can't log in the help desk

Post by Joe » Tue Mar 22, 2005 10:43 am

imnobrainer wrote:I tried but failed to log in to help desk. It seems that this is the only forum I have access to. :evil
You registered with two different usernames: here you registered as imnoabrainer and in ESL Help as imnobrainer. Since your YM is imnobrainer in both cases I assume imnoabrainer was a mistake. I have reset and reactivated your username in both forums to imnobrainer. Both sides of my brain are now exhausted. PM me if you still have problems or want to change the username(s).

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Post by GiddyGad » Tue Mar 22, 2005 1:02 pm

"The brain has two halves and is covered with thin layers of membrane."

In this sentence there's only one subject - "the brain", because "two halves" is an object. So the two predicates are homogeneous and should be conjugated accordingly. The sentence is simple, not complex.

"The brain has two halves which are covered with thin layers of membrane".

Here are two subjects and two predicates so the sentence is complex.

If you mean sentences like: "What I'm asking for is a pen, not a pencil" then here we've got two sentences, one of which is the subject of the other. "What" is an object of the first sentence (ask for what), not the subject of the second.
Last edited by GiddyGad on Tue Mar 22, 2005 5:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by GiddyGad » Tue Mar 22, 2005 5:01 pm

Actually, my question is whether the sentence "The brain has two halves and ARE COVERED with thin layers of membrane" grammatically sound, if so, why?

I don't think it is... Haven't seen anything like that.

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Post by GiddyGad » Tue Mar 22, 2005 5:18 pm

In theory I think it's possible to consider your sentence with two Predicates and one Subject as two sentences with one Subject but it doesn't help because they both are tied to the same Subject and conjugated (in Person and Number) in accordance with it...

I'd rather say, the Predicate determines the Person and the Number of the Subject - in English the Subject being Singular may be considered as Plural if the Predicate is Plural: "My family are..."; "The police are after the criminal..." et al. Variants like "I says to him..." are also possible, though may be considered colloquial or improper...

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Post by Pirate » Wed Mar 23, 2005 7:06 am

imnobrainer wrote: I thought "The brain has two halves and is covered with thin layers of membrane" is a compound sentence made up of two independant clauses, i.e. "The brain has two halves", "The brain is covered with thin layers of membrane" joined by the conjunction "and", with " the brain" omitted in the second principal clause as repetitive.

And "The brain has two halves which are covered with thin layers of membrane" is a complex sentence, having only one main clause: "The brain has two halves"
Yes you are right!
imnobrainer wrote:Actually, my question is whether the sentence "The brain has two halves and ARE COVERED with thin layers of membrane" grammatically sound, if so, why?

Any other opinions? :?:
No, this sentence is not correct. If you want to shorten the complex sentence, there'll be no "and":

The brain has two halves COVERED with thin layers of membrane.

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Re: with two Predicates and one Subject

Post by GiddyGad » Sat Mar 26, 2005 2:30 pm

GiddyGad, thank you for you posts. Now I truely appreciate why mastery of a second language is a frustrating and daunting task, particularly the English language.
If I take it right, you think my comments are too complex, frustrating, and daunting, don't you? Well, maybe... Sometimes it does take time and efforts to persuade students to look for harmony, not rules, in a foreign language. Those who believe in rules have to ask a lot of unnecessary questions. Conversely, those who see the harmony can deduce any rules themselves.

If you analyse most frequent students' mistakes, if you take into account students' so common inability to express themselves in word (not just to say something) you'll understand that learning a language in tables and rules just doesn't work. Whatever the rules say, I know the advantages of my approach. It's much better supported by English texts - books, articles, etc., than grammars and dictionaries.

Anyway, it's not a help board I've intruded, is it?

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Re: with two Predicates and one Subject

Post by GiddyGad » Mon Mar 28, 2005 12:39 pm

Imnobrainer,
What I was saying is that the explanations I received from various sources vary. Each answer has its own way of analysing the sentence; thus, I was a bit confused and felt that even to understand the grammatical rules over a simple sentence is not an easy task.
Yeah, explanations may differ. Do they tell on the resulting sentence? What is wrong is wrong, do you agree? There's a form, the given, which is considered correct; and there are explanations which should cover similar language phenomena, preferably without exclusions or introduction of new definitions.

One evident example of the profanation imposed by modern grammar books is the Conditional Mood. I hope you will agree that we speak of a phenomenon only in case it cannot be referred to as another already existing one.

Indeed, such sentence as:"If the weather is fine I will go to the park," seems irregular for Indicative Mood and should be introduced as a specific Mood - Conditional... if (only if!) there is future tense in English.

F.R. Palmer wrote in 1976:"...Formally English has two tenses only, past and present as in love and loved. All other so-called tenses are composite forms involving auxiliary verbs, was loving, will love, etc.; these are not strictly part of the 'basic' tense system (and in this sense English has no future tense).

If we admit that there's no future tense in English the sentense: "If the weather is fine I will go to the park," will become regular. Moreover, we can use modal verbs (e.g. will, should) in the conditional clause as well. They will introduce new shades to the picture. The point is that we use Modal verbs when we need them, don't we? A condition doesn't always reguire our attitude to it.

Thus a sentence: "If the weather will be fine I will go to the park" does have sense and is regular as well. Try other Modal verbs in the conditional clause and choose which will work and which will sound funny.
No Mood, no rule. Just harmony.

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