So confusing. Context is so inconstant??

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Jads
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So confusing. Context is so inconstant??

Post by Jads »

Why is Subjective? Any one can offer help? :-?

:arrow:
1)Miss Tan seems rather happy,_____she?
(a)doesn't (b)didn't (c)wasn't (d)isn't
why is answer (a)?
'isnt' sounds better? the answer (a) sound like illogical grammatical error??

2) Where is a tube of glue I bought yesterday?
why not 'the' tube ? why must it be ''a" tube?
'a' is more specific,'the' is general.....so y choose the general term for the word tube?

3) Personal pronouns > It
Possesive adjective > Its(paw)
Possesive Pronouns > -none-

why possesive pronouns is none? is "it" a less common word in PP?
why is it none? can use word 'they' instead of none???

4)a little disappointed

why is it associated with a little? can it be counted? if so why not use a bit/lot/less/more disappointed?
can 'a little' be used in other moods' word?? little happy,sad,furious,angry

:cry: So confused help pls!!!
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Re: So confusing. Context is so inconstant??

Post by Jads »

help pls :oops:
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Tukanja
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Re: So confusing. Context is so inconstant??

Post by Tukanja »

Let me say what i think about these four inconsistent problems. Who knows, it might help a little (a bit). Anyhow it will at least initiate others to move on

1. It's about question tags.
Question tags are short forms of questions added at the end of the sentence after the statement.

Miss Tan seems fairly happy, doesn't she?
Miss Tan is very nice, isn't she?
You haven't talked to me before, have you?
You didn't go to the shop, did you?
After they tied you up, you couldn't have moved, could you?

Usually we use positive tag after negative statement and negative tag after positive statement.
Also of course the tenses or the modalities of the statements and the tags must match each other.

You wouldn't say could you move, mustn't you?, would you?

No you wouldn't.
Neither would I.

2. Where is a tube of glue I bought yesterday?

You asked a question to me and mentioned the tube for the first time. It was a tube. Now it is the tube for it was already mentioned.

3. I think, I didn't understand your the third question.

It ~ pronoun, third person singular
its ~ possesive form, genitive
it's ~ 's is the is or the was, depends.(auxiliary)

who did this? None of us! None of means not one of, not any of.
there is nothing possesive with the pronoun none. As to my informations nones doesn't exist in the english language.(none's could mean nobody's but doesn't exist as well)
Finally how to use they instead of none in the sentence None of us!?

4. a little disappointed (context is missed)

I was a little disappointed.

a little is used like adjective which means a small amount of something. (a small degree this time)

a bit disappointed could be used as well.

Was it raining yesterday?
Little. (without the a),(little = hardly it was)

It means that you consider "the yesterday's raining" not like no raining at all but almost no raining, at amount which doesn't worth to be mentioned. Infinitesimally small! :lol: not even a little but little. :-D
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Re: So confusing. Context is so inconstant??

Post by Jads »

great tango
mbellotti
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Re: So confusing. Context is so inconstant??

Post by mbellotti »

This is a lot of questions for one post :)
Jads wrote:Why is Subjective? Any one can offer help? :-?

:arrow:
1)Miss Tan seems rather happy,_____she?
(a)doesn't (b)didn't (c)wasn't (d)isn't
why is answer (a)?
'isnt' sounds better? the answer (a) sound like illogical grammatical error??
When we form a question in English we need to use an AUXILIARY VERB (sometimes called a 'helping verb'). There are four types of auxiliary verbs: to do, to be, to have and the MODALS (can, will, should, may... etc). So in every question we need one of these.

With question tags we are adding a quick question to the end of a statement, so we have to look back at the first part and find the auxiliary verb. For example:

He can't swim, can he?
It is a beautiful day today, isn't it?

But the sentence Miss Tan seems rather happy has no auxiliary verb, only a main verb 'to seem' so in this case we must add the auxiliary verb 'to do'

Miss Tan does seem rather happy, doesn't she?

But in practice we don't need the first 'to do', it's not necessary to the sentence so it usually gets left out. Leaving the final sentence:
Miss Tan seems rather happy, doesn't she?
2) Where is a tube of glue I bought yesterday?
why not 'the' tube ? why must it be ''a" tube?
'a' is more specific,'the' is general.....so y choose the general term for the word tube?
No it should be Where is the tube of glue I bought yesterday? you have the rules reversed: the is specific (definite), a is general (indefinite)
3) Personal pronouns > It
Possesive adjective > Its(paw)
Possesive Pronouns > -none-

why possesive pronouns is none? is "it" a less common word in PP?
why is it none? can use word 'they' instead of none???
Not sure I understand this question. "Its" is the possessive pronoun, "It's" is short for "It is"
4)a little disappointed

why is it associated with a little? can it be counted? if so why not use a bit/lot/less/more disappointed?
can 'a little' be used in other moods' word?? little happy,sad,furious,angry

:cry: So confused help pls!!!
When used with nouns 'a little' works only with uncountables ("Can I have a little milk?" but not "Can I have a little books?") unless you are describing the noun as SMALL ("I need to buy a little book to write my schedule in.") but that's not really the phrase 'a little' ... it's just ARTICLE + ADJECTIVE + NOUN so it's not the same thing really.

Yes, you can use 'a little' to describe emotions and states ("I'm a little hungry", "He's a little sad."). It depends on the strength of the emotion. If the emotion is very very strong or the state an all or nothing condition it sounds silly to say you're "a little". For example you cannot be "a little dead" or "a little alive" because you are either alive or dead, nor can you be "a little furious" because furious is such a strong emotion.

You can also use many of the alternatives you included.

A bit disappointed- Fine
A lot disappointed- Incorrect, but sometimes people will say this when a little has been used. For example: "I'm a little confused and a lot angry." This is wrong wrong wrong but it's a mistake that people make on purpose.
More/Less disappointed- Okay but it is context specific. For example: "I'm more disappointed than he is about this" More and Less are used for comparisons.

Phew! That was a lot :)
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Re: So confusing. Context is so inconstant??

Post by Jads »

all qn once n 4 all..tys alot
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Re: So confusing. Context is so inconstant??

Post by Tukanja »

hey Jads I had told ya they'd move on and it happened ;-)
Whew, mbellotti, it was long indeed :lol: but useful as well! ;-) :-)
In addition and in relation to the fourth group of the auxiliaries that were mentioned, I want to say that I've recalled I once got from a book that there are more forms, with some characteristcs of the modals, like

phrasal modals (be able to, be allowed to, be going to, be supposed to, have to, have got to)?

and complex modals which take forms of

modal perfect ~ might have taken, shouldn' t have done, had to have done,
modal continuous ~ shouldn't be running, talking, etc,..
modal perfect continuous ~ had to have been sleeping,..
and their passive forms ~ couldn't have been explained, can not be bitten,..

Examples
He won't be able to manage the problem, will he?
You are going to your mountain place in the end of this month, aren't you?
There was so much to say and he had to have been talking a lot, hadn't he?

I think the question tags may be used with these forms as well, may they not?

Also I think, I didn't make a lot of mistakes writing this, did I?

At last there is a problem.
There are words, which are basically verbs but from the point of modality, semi-modals as well. Their infinitive forms are, to dare and to need. How to use them with the quick q tags?

Anyone to help about? :-)
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Re: So confusing. Context is so inconstant??

Post by mbellotti »

Tukanja wrote: In addition and in relation to the fourth group of the auxiliaries that were mentioned, I want to say that I've recalled I once got from a book that there are more modal forms, like

phrasal modals (be able to, be allowed to, be going to, be supposed to, have to, have got to)?

and complex modals which take forms of

modal perfect ~ might have taken, shouldn' t have done, had to have done,
modal continuous ~ shouldn't be running, talking, etc,..
modal perfect continuous ~ had to have been sleeping,..
and their passive forms ~ couldn't have been explained, can not be bitten,..

Examples
He won't be able to manage the problem, will he?
You are going to your mountain place in the end of this month, aren't you?
There was so much to say and he had to have been talking a lot, hadn't he?

I think the question tags may be used with these forms as well, may they not?

Also I think, I didn't make a lot of mistakes writing this, did I?
English teachers have a nasty habit of making things more complicated than they have to be. Your examples are fine (the last one I don't like that much ... I would probably just say "right?" rather than "hadn't he?" but the grammar looks okay. And I'd prefer "mountain place at the end of this month" but otherwise these are nice examples) but the grammar is actually the same as the basic question-tags from before.

So called "Phrasal Modals" are not true Modal verbs. They are often taught with Modal verbs because they are useful and can have similar meanings, but they cannot be used exactly the same way as Modal verbs. It's important to understand this to avoid confusion. The big difference is that Phrasal Modals cannot start questions. For example:

Must -vs- Have to
You can say "I must go to school" or "I have to go to school" but only "Must I go to school?" If you want to turn the second sentence into a question you have to add an auxiliary: "Do I have to go to school?" And with a tag: "I have to go to school, don't I?"

What you identify as "Perfect Modals" are actually "Past Modals" (although it's possible that teachers use the term "perfect modals" I dislike it. It's not a perfect tense, it does not do what a perfect tense does and I think calling it a perfect tense just makes everything ten times more confusing). By themselves modal verbs have NO TIME, they have no past-present-future forms. This is very confusing for students because they are taught could == past tense of can, will = future tense. Grammatically this explanation is not 100% correct, but it's easy to understand and helps the student use the words correctly.

When we want to use a modal to describe a past state we add HAVE + past participle. Yes it looks like a perfect tense, but it's not ;)

Describing a Present situation:
"I should read that book ... it sounds interesting."
Describing a Past situation:
"Darn, I should have read that book. It was on the test."

The other modal forms you've mentioned I wouldn't really say are special modal forms, it's just using two or three grammatical forms together to form more complex meanings. Using them in question tags is not so difficult.

Whenever you can multiple auxiliary verbs in a sentence you want to add a question tag you use the first one. For example:
"He shouldn't have been running all day, should he?"

Same if we're forming a normal question:
"Should he have been running all day?"
At last there is a problem.
There are words, which are basically verbs but from the point of modality, semi-modals as well. Their infinitive forms are, to dare and to need. How to use them with the quick q tags?

Anyone to help about? :-)
Well actually these are not modals, not even semi :) They are main verbs that take infinitives as objects (you probably have practiced verb+infinitive and verb+gerund. Sentences like "He stopped to talk to me" and "He stopped talking to me", that's what this is). So if we want to use them in question tags we still need an auxiliary verb :)

Example:
I need to go tonight, don't I?
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Re: So confusing. Context is so inconstant??

Post by Joe »

mbellotti's answers are very helpful. You may also like to look at the following pages:
http://www.englishclub.com/grammar/verb ... ns-tag.htm
http://www.englishclub.com/grammar/pron ... rsonal.htm
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Re: So confusing. Context is so inconstant??

Post by Tukanja »

mbellotti wrote:
English teachers have a nasty habit of making things more complicated than they have to be. I thought that these, whose books I have been reading till now (there are only a few of them), haven't been of the strange habit but decorously wrote in their books not all what they knew but what they had thought the learners should at least get about the matter :roll: Your examples are fine (the last one I don't like that much ... I would probably just say "right?" Right! (rather than "hadn't he?) but the grammar looks okay.(I also thought to say had he instead of hadn't he. there mustn't always be the complements of the auxiliaries but usually only, i think)

And I'd prefer "mountain place at the end of this month" I thought, at the end of the road (place), in the end of the month, of this summer, (time)
Also,
in the end of the month doesn't define the day completely. a several days exist in the end of.. :roll:
at the end of the month might mean on the last day of the month, on the 31'th of the month, exactly.
These were the reasons why the word in won the battle against the preposition at.


So called "Phrasal Modals" are not true Modal verbs. Right. They are often taught with Modal verbs because they are useful and can have similar meanings, but they cannot be used exactly the same way as Modal verbs. It's important to understand this to avoid confusion. The big difference is that Phrasal Modals cannot start questions. For example:

Must -vs- Have to
You can say "I must go to school" or "I have to go to school" but only "Must I go to school?" If you want to turn the second sentence into a question you have to add an auxiliary: "Do I have to go to school?" And with a tag: "I have to go to school, don't I?"

As to my opinion the main difference between the modals and both the phrasal modals and the complex forms I mentioned, is that modals never change their form but phrasal modals do (have to, had to).

The phrasal modals are verb phrases that have some characteristics which tell us about modality in the sentences.
The modals (can, could, must etc,..), I scarcely consider them verbs.
I would like to say I see them like modals which sometimes take some of the main verb characteristics but in very special cases like in the sentence

Can you catch up with me. Yes I can.

If there was no the first sentence, in which we've had the phrasal verb catch up, the word can, in the second sentence, would mean really nothing.
So the modal sentence Yes I can and all the others of the modal-sentence family ought to be correlated to its predecessor sentences or mean nothing.

There might exist another and of course better shout instead of modal sentence and in the grammar books but I haven't seen the shout till now.

What you identify as "Perfect Modals" are actually "Past Modals" (although it's possible that teachers use the term "perfect modals" I dislike it. It's not a perfect tense, it does not do what a perfect tense does and I think calling it a perfect tense just makes everything ten times more confusing). By themselves modal verbs have NO TIME, they have no past-present-future forms. This is very confusing for students because they are taught could == past tense of can, will = future tense. Grammatically this explanation is not 100% correct, but it's easy to understand and helps the student use the words correctly.

When we want to use a modal to describe a past state we add HAVE + past participle. Yes it looks like a perfect tense, but it's not ;) I agree it isn't the perfect tense (the perfect aspect of a verb) but the modal perfect, as it had been said in the book!

Describing a Present situation:
"I should read that book ... it sounds interesting." (should ~ modal)
Describing a Past situation:
"Darn, I should have read that book. It was on the test." (should have read ~ modal perfect)

The other modal forms you've mentioned I wouldn't really say are special modal forms (I agree), it's just using two or three grammatical forms together to form more complex meanings (the complex modals :-) for complex meanings). Using them in question tags is not so difficult.

At last there is a problem.
There are words, which are basically verbs but from the point of modality, semi-modals as well. Their infinitive forms are, to dare and to need. How to use them with the quick q tags?

Anyone to help about? :-)
Well actually these are not modals, not even semi :) They are main verbs that take infinitives as objects (you probably have practiced verb+infinitive and verb+gerund. Sentences like "He stopped to talk to me" and "He stopped talking to me", that's what this is). So if we want to use them in question tags we still need an auxiliary verb :)

Example:
I need to go tonight, don't I?
Oh, mbellotti, what about this, the next, which I got from one of the books as well. I had better (complex modal) say that the book I've at last mentioned, comes from its fourth edition.

According to the book, the semi-modals are: to dare, to need, used

Let me say this example.
Do you dare to criticize my arguments? (Isn't dare semi modal here for the word is telling us about modality.
It's a normal verb but has some characteristics which tell about modality. Owing to that fact it could be seen like semi-modal but not forgetting its main class.

But on the other hand
in the sentence
Do you like to criticize my arguments?, the word like could be a semi-modal as well.

I used to go there every weekend.

Used + the infinitive tell us how and when we go there. So it has the mentioned characteristic.
I used to drink beer but now I drink my strong plum brandy only.

Seems as though it is really a high time I should have stopped typing and took a rest. :lol:
I am hoping you understand that my arguing to you is my strange way of implementing the need to learn and at last both understand and remember the things better.
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Re: So confusing. Context is so inconstant??

Post by mbellotti »

Tukanja, I think for the most part you understand the grammar quite well and we just disagree about terminology. English teachers have a big problem here because there is no standardized terminology. Different books call the same piece of grammar different things. It's not that these terms are wrong really, but personally there are many that I do not like, do not use and encourage my students not to use because they are confusing. Calling a Past Modal a Perfect Modal when it's not at all a Perfect Tense is silly and just makes things more confusing. Likewise I've seen many textbooks talk about "past gerunds" which also drives me crazy because a gerund by definition is a NOUN and nouns have no past tense!

But if these are the terms you are familiar with and feel comfortable with, then you should use them. I am very strict with what I will allow my students to call a "modal" because modals are incredibly useful words and show up all over the place but not every ... "modal-ish"? "Modal-like"? verb/phrase will fit in a sentence the same way as a true modal. These rules I'm sure you are familiar with already:

-modals have no -s in 3rd person singular.
"I need to go now" and "I must go now" are very similar in meaning but look how the forms change when the subject does: "He needs to go now" but still "He must go now."

-modals are always always always followed by the bare infinitive (infinitive: to go, bare infinitive: go) words like need, dare can be followed by the infinitive but then you have the word "like" which could be followed by the infinitive or the gerund.

-Modals do not have infinitive forms or past participles

-Modals have negative forms that are often contracted. Can >> Can't, but we can't say the same for the verb "like"

So yes, there are many verbs that can express similar meanings to modals but you should not think of them as behaving like modals because their grammar is much much different. In low levels this isn't very important because sentences are simple and direct, but when students come up to higher levels and sentences get longer and more complicated not understanding what is and isn't a modal makes writing your own sentences very confusing.

As for the "in the end of the month" -vs- "at the end of the month" ... It's possible that this is a regional thing, it's hard for me to say for certain :/ American English and British English have a few preposition differences and I'm American :) :) I know a lot of "British English" because I've done a lot of teaching in it, but it's impossible to know every slight difference. Even within "British" and "American" English there are many regional disagreements. For example in New York we like to say "stand on line" while the rest of the country says "stand in line".
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Re: So confusing. Context is so inconstant??

Post by Tukanja »

Any one can offer help? :-?

2) Where is a tube of glue I bought yesterday?
why not 'the' tube ? why must it be ''a" tube?
'a' is more specific,'the' is general.....so y choose the general term for the word tube?
mbellotti wrote:No it should be Where is the tube of glue I bought yesterday? you have the rules reversed: the is specific (definite), a is general (indefinite)
[/quote]

Who said he had bought the only one tube?

Please don't say anything about this, will you? ;-) :-)
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