Why is it Japan Society not Japanese Society

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CrownSteve
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Why is it Japan Society not Japanese Society

Post by CrownSteve » Thu Sep 27, 2018 2:02 am

I understand if people want to have shorter names, but surely not at the expense of grammar. Or it could be called Society of Japan. I have seen this on lots of Chinese state companies like "China construction" or something like that. Am I right in being confused by these examples?

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Joe
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Re: Why is it Japan Society not Japanese Society

Post by Joe » Thu Sep 27, 2018 2:44 am

Is it a society about Japan or a society that is Japanese?

Think also of the British Club or indeed EnglishClub...
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Re: Why is it Japan Society not Japanese Society

Post by CrownSteve » Thu Sep 27, 2018 6:44 am

Joe wrote:
Thu Sep 27, 2018 2:44 am
Is it a society about Japan or a society that is Japanese?

Think also of the British Club or indeed EnglishClub...
I mean East Asian countries are (perhaps) the only example of not conjugating their country names. If you've ever been to China or Japan, you can see lots of examples (especially in China) of very bad English (both grammatically and in the usage of words). So that makes me suspicious that they have committed a grammatical error.

Japan Society is an organization in Manhattan dedicated to the US-Japan relations. But if such organizations exist in Japan, I would imagine it to be "American society" and not "America society". I suspect that people don't like the East Asian affix -nese. Perhaps because it sounds not very elegant?

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Re: Why is it Japan Society not Japanese Society

Post by Joe » Thu Sep 27, 2018 7:07 am

I don't think this usage is restricted to Asia. The BBC have many country correspondents and they are described, for example: as:

BBC Ireland Correspondent (not Irish Correspondent)

OR

Korea expert Fred Bloggs (not Korean expert)

Also found:

"I worked in Tokyo as the BBC's Japan Correspondent, covering all aspects of..."

Certainly there may sometimes be non-idiomatic or ungrammatical usages within specific countries (of the sort you describe), but it is not inherently wrong to say the Japan Society.

Here's a mixture of usages from the University of British Columbia:
Astronomy Club (NOT Astronomic Club)
Beads and Craft Club
Chinese Students and Scholars Association (Great Wall Club)
Food Society
Photographic Society (NOT Photography Society)
Ski and Board Club
Vancouver Student Entrepreneurship Association
"We are not wholly bad or good, who live our lives under Milk Wood :-| " — Dylan Thomas, Under Milk Wood

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CrownSteve
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Re: Why is it Japan Society not Japanese Society

Post by CrownSteve » Fri Sep 28, 2018 7:56 am

Joe wrote:
Thu Sep 27, 2018 7:07 am
I don't think this usage is restricted to Asia. The BBC have many country correspondents and they are described, for example: as:

BBC Ireland Correspondent (not Irish Correspondent)

OR

Korea expert Fred Bloggs (not Korean expert)

Also found:

"I worked in Tokyo as the BBC's Japan Correspondent, covering all aspects of..."

Certainly there may sometimes be non-idiomatic or ungrammatical usages within specific countries (of the sort you describe), but it is not inherently wrong to say the Japan Society.

Here's a mixture of usages from the University of British Columbia:
Astronomy Club (NOT Astronomic Club)
Beads and Craft Club
Chinese Students and Scholars Association (Great Wall Club)
Food Society
Photographic Society (NOT Photography Society)
Ski and Board Club
Vancouver Student Entrepreneurship Association
I also found an example: Royal Photographic Society (not Photography Society).
So English is very relaxed considering the names of organizations? I can see that the Japan Society focuses on the country and culture of Japan and not the language of Japan. People may consider "Japanese" to be nationalistic. So perhaps when considering the conjugation in names, people consider a) the focus and b) just whatever they want.

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Re: Why is it Japan Society not Japanese Society

Post by Joe » Fri Sep 28, 2018 8:41 am

Judge Kavanaugh in the US Senate hearings last night referred to his “women students” as opposed to female students. This has become commonplace. When I was young in UK we had female drivers. Now they’re all women. The use of nouns as adjectives is growing, especially if it avoids words that suggest such distasteful things as sex, or even gender. (Please take with a large dose of sarcasm.)
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Re: Why is it Japan Society not Japanese Society

Post by Joe » Fri Sep 28, 2018 8:46 am

Sometimes there is a need to be careful. For example, what is an English teacher? Especially if she is French. It’s horses for courses and use the most specific language you can. A French English teacher is confusing. A French teacher of English is not.
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Re: Why is it Japan Society not Japanese Society

Post by Joe » Fri Sep 28, 2018 8:49 am

Of course, Japanese Society and Japanese society are not the same. Another thing to think about.
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Re: Why is it Japan Society not Japanese Society

Post by justoneplay » Sun Sep 30, 2018 3:13 am

Joe wrote:
Fri Sep 28, 2018 8:41 am
Judge Kavanaugh in the US Senate hearings last night referred to his “women students” as opposed to female students. This has become commonplace. When I was young in UK we had female drivers. Now they’re all women. The use of nouns as adjectives is growing, especially if it avoids words that suggest such distasteful things as sex, or even gender. (Please take with a large dose of sarcasm.)
By the way.....Judge Kavanaugh is sooooooo guilty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"Education is not the learning of facts,but the training of the mind to think."
Albert Einstein

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justoneplay
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Re: Why is it Japan Society not Japanese Society

Post by justoneplay » Sun Sep 30, 2018 3:21 am

Joe wrote:
Fri Sep 28, 2018 8:46 am
Sometimes there is a need to be careful. For example, what is an English teacher? Especially if she is French. It’s horses for courses and use the most specific language you can. A French English teacher is confusing. A French teacher of English is not.
For me a French English teacher is a french national who teaches english!
"Education is not the learning of facts,but the training of the mind to think."
Albert Einstein

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