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Why is it Japan Society not Japanese Society
Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 2:02 am
by CrownSteve
I understand if people want to have shorter names, but surely not at the expense of grammar. Or it could be called Society of Japan. I have seen this on lots of Chinese state companies like "China construction" or something like that. Am I right in being confused by these examples?
Re: Why is it Japan Society not Japanese Society
Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 2:44 am
by Josef Essberger
Is it a society about Japan or a society that is Japanese?
Think also of the British Club or indeed EnglishClub...
Re: Why is it Japan Society not Japanese Society
Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 6:44 am
by CrownSteve
Joe wrote: ↑Thu Sep 27, 2018 2:44 am
Is it a society about Japan or a society that is Japanese?
Think also of the British Club or indeed EnglishClub...
I mean East Asian countries are (perhaps) the only example of not conjugating their country names. If you've ever been to China or Japan, you can see lots of examples (especially in China) of very bad English (both grammatically and in the usage of words). So that makes me suspicious that they have committed a grammatical error.
Japan Society is an organization in Manhattan dedicated to the US-Japan relations. But if such organizations exist in Japan, I would imagine it to be "American society" and not "America society". I suspect that people don't like the East Asian affix -nese. Perhaps because it sounds not very elegant?
Re: Why is it Japan Society not Japanese Society
Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 7:07 am
by Josef Essberger
I don't think this usage is restricted to Asia. The BBC have many country correspondents and they are described, for example: as:
BBC Ireland Correspondent (not Irish Correspondent)
OR
Korea expert Fred Bloggs (not Korean expert)
Also found:
"I worked in Tokyo as the BBC's Japan Correspondent, covering all aspects of..."
Certainly there may sometimes be non-idiomatic or ungrammatical usages within specific countries (of the sort you describe), but it is not inherently wrong to say the Japan Society.
Here's a mixture of usages from the University of British Columbia:
Astronomy Club (NOT Astronomic Club)
Beads and Craft Club
Chinese Students and Scholars Association (Great Wall Club)
Food Society
Photographic Society (NOT Photography Society)
Ski and Board Club
Vancouver Student Entrepreneurship Association
Re: Why is it Japan Society not Japanese Society
Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 7:56 am
by CrownSteve
Joe wrote: ↑Thu Sep 27, 2018 7:07 am
I don't think this usage is restricted to Asia. The BBC have many country correspondents and they are described, for example: as:
BBC Ireland Correspondent (not Irish Correspondent)
OR
Korea expert Fred Bloggs (not Korean expert)
Also found:
"I worked in Tokyo as the BBC's Japan Correspondent, covering all aspects of..."
Certainly there may sometimes be non-idiomatic or ungrammatical usages within specific countries (of the sort you describe), but it is not inherently wrong to say the Japan Society.
Here's a mixture of usages from the University of British Columbia:
Astronomy Club (NOT Astronomic Club)
Beads and Craft Club
Chinese Students and Scholars Association (Great Wall Club)
Food Society
Photographic Society (NOT Photography Society)
Ski and Board Club
Vancouver Student Entrepreneurship Association
I also found an example: Royal Photographic Society (not Photography Society).
So English is very relaxed considering the names of organizations? I can see that the Japan Society focuses on the country and culture of Japan and not the language of Japan. People may consider "Japanese" to be nationalistic. So perhaps when considering the conjugation in names, people consider a) the focus and b) just whatever they want.
Re: Why is it Japan Society not Japanese Society
Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 8:41 am
by Josef Essberger
Judge Kavanaugh in the US Senate hearings last night referred to his “women students” as opposed to female students. This has become commonplace. When I was young in UK we had female drivers. Now they’re all women. The use of nouns as adjectives is growing, especially if it avoids words that suggest such distasteful things as sex, or even gender. (Please take with a large dose of sarcasm.)
Re: Why is it Japan Society not Japanese Society
Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 8:46 am
by Josef Essberger
Sometimes there is a need to be careful. For example, what is an English teacher? Especially if she is French. It’s horses for courses and use the most specific language you can. A French English teacher is confusing. A French teacher of English is not.
Re: Why is it Japan Society not Japanese Society
Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 8:49 am
by Josef Essberger
Of course, Japanese Society and Japanese society are not the same. Another thing to think about.
Re: Why is it Japan Society not Japanese Society
Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 3:13 am
by justoneplay
Joe wrote: ↑Fri Sep 28, 2018 8:41 am
Judge Kavanaugh in the US Senate hearings last night referred to his “women students” as opposed to female students. This has become commonplace. When I was young in UK we had female drivers. Now they’re all women. The use of nouns as adjectives is growing, especially if it avoids words that suggest such distasteful things as sex, or even gender. (Please take with a large dose of sarcasm.)
By the way.....Judge Kavanaugh is sooooooo guilty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Re: Why is it Japan Society not Japanese Society
Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 3:21 am
by justoneplay
Joe wrote: ↑Fri Sep 28, 2018 8:46 am
Sometimes there is a need to be careful. For example, what is an English teacher? Especially if she is French. It’s horses for courses and use the most specific language you can. A French English teacher is confusing. A French teacher of English is not.
For me a French English teacher is a french national who teaches english!
Re: Why is it Japan Society not Japanese Society
Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 3:49 am
by Josef Essberger
justoneplay wrote: ↑Sun Sep 30, 2018 3:13 am
Joe wrote: ↑Fri Sep 28, 2018 8:41 am
Judge Kavanaugh in the US Senate hearings last night referred to his “women students” as opposed to female students. This has become commonplace. When I was young in UK we had female drivers. Now they’re all women. The use of nouns as adjectives is growing, especially if it avoids words that suggest such distasteful things as sex, or even gender. (Please take with a large dose of sarcasm.)
By the way.....Judge Kavanaugh is sooooooo guilty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No comment
Re: Why is it Japan Society not Japanese Society
Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 3:56 am
by Josef Essberger
justoneplay wrote: ↑Sun Sep 30, 2018 3:21 am
Joe wrote: ↑Fri Sep 28, 2018 8:46 am
Sometimes there is a need to be careful. For example, what is an English teacher? Especially if she is French. It’s horses for courses and use the most specific language you can. A French English teacher is confusing. A French teacher of English is not.
For me a French English teacher is a french national who teaches english!
I agree in principle. But how about a British American English teacher?
Re: Why is it Japan Society not Japanese Society
Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:10 pm
by CrownSteve
Joe wrote: ↑Fri Sep 28, 2018 8:41 am
Judge Kavanaugh in the US Senate hearings last night referred to his “women students” as opposed to female students. This has become commonplace. When I was young in UK we had female drivers. Now they’re all women. The use of nouns as adjectives is growing, especially if it avoids words that suggest such distasteful things as sex, or even gender. (Please take with a large dose of sarcasm.)
Indeed. English is evolving. BTW, would this be an example of apposition?
Re: Why is it Japan Society not Japanese Society
Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:13 pm
by CrownSteve
justoneplay wrote: ↑Sun Sep 30, 2018 3:13 am
Joe wrote: ↑Fri Sep 28, 2018 8:41 am
Judge Kavanaugh in the US Senate hearings last night referred to his “women students” as opposed to female students. This has become commonplace. When I was young in UK we had female drivers. Now they’re all women. The use of nouns as adjectives is growing, especially if it avoids words that suggest such distasteful things as sex, or even gender. (Please take with a large dose of sarcasm.)
By the way.....Judge Kavanaugh is sooooooo guilty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you think about it, Dems are becoming smarter. Kavanaugh really is in deep trouble. I really didn't see that the "MeToo" movement would be turned into a political weapon. Perhaps that's why politicians invented this movement at all.
Re: Why is it Japan Society not Japanese Society
Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:20 pm
by Josef Essberger
Interesting piece on usage of Democratic Party vs Democrat Party here:
https://www.factcheck.org/2007/12/the-d ... rat-party/
Just to keep the thread on topic ;)
Re: Why is it Japan Society not Japanese Society
Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:29 pm
by Josef Essberger
CrownSteve wrote: ↑Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:10 pmBTW, would this be an example of apposition?
Apposition? As in "My
sister Sue is female."?
I don't believe so. Correct me if I'm wrong.