"Marriages" between people of the same sex?

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Lac
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Marriage of the same sex

Post by Lac » Tue Feb 21, 2006 9:07 am

To my personal view, its's entirely uncacceptable in any society.
The term "marriage" is often defined as the combination between two opposite sex. It means that it claims two different elements modified or complemented together for having the following consequences. Talking about "marriage", one frequently thinks about love, delivery, family, duty etc...
I am suspicious of a real love in the marrage of the same sex. Do they have anything offered together? Do they come with each other through a real love ? Of course they themselves - gay, lesbians- might have lots of reasons to explain their actions as well as the meaning of "real love".
No bad consequences have been found scientifically from marriage of the same sex. It's just regarded as something unusual in a morden society. But some developed countires approved it officially, and people looks tolerant towards such couples involved. Sex story is a quite private thing and which way to choose in marriage is also private.
Actually, why we forbid such unnatural marriage legally and constitutionally ? It might be contradictory to our current views but how can we know in future or a few more years ?
Marriage of the same sex brings no notion of "husband", "wife","dad" "mother", "kids", "uncle", "aunt". It seems to upset all of ordinary conception that has often been recognized as common standard for a happy family.
The topic given by Lenny TRAN is quite wide, not limited and commented in just few messages. The problem is that we should not condemn it as anything horrible like many asian countries have. It is neccessary to have an appropriate resolution to it rather than expressing morally disapprovals against it.

Lac

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Re: "Marriages" between people of the same sex?

Post by MissLT » Tue Feb 21, 2006 4:05 pm

TearHere wrote:
TP wrote:Should "marriages" between people of the same sex be permitted?
i think it's a case-by-case basis.. Like, here in our country, it's not legal, thus it's not permitetd.. possibly because of our religion..
I'm glad you've brough this up. This is something I'm not too fond of religions. They make too many rules under the name of God. "Oh, you can't do this; you can't do that! If you do, you'll be damned." And the Church has too much power because 'they' say only them can ask for salvation from God, and you must speak through them. I mean, is God really that busy that he, himself, can't save every single soul directly? I thought he was omnipotent.........

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Re: Marriage of the same sex

Post by MissLT » Tue Feb 21, 2006 4:18 pm

Lac wrote: To my personal view, its's entirely uncacceptable in any society.
The term "marriage" is often defined as the combination between two opposite sex. It means that it claims two different elements modified or complemented together for having the following consequences. Talking about "marriage", one frequently thinks about love, delivery, family, duty etc...
We, humans, like to define things. We like to name everything on this Earth. Even one human to another we must have name for each other. We can't go around saying "hey you!" We think it's confusing and blah blah blah... It's the same for marriage. We made the word; we defined it ourselves. If we could do something like this, we could change it any way we want. Therefore, to what I see marriage can define in any way we want as long as we feel pleased within ourselves. There is no right and wrong definition for marriage. The wrong definition only happens when someone accuses someone else to be out of the norms.
Lac wrote:I am suspicious of a real love in the marrage of the same sex. Do they have anything offered together? Do they come with each other through a real love ? Of course they themselves - gay, lesbians- might have lots of reasons to explain their actions as well as the meaning of "real love".
How can you doubt something is not real when you know nothing about it? And how can you doubt their real love when you know nothing about what real love is? If you did know what real love was, you wouldn't say it this way.
Lac wrote:No bad consequences have been found scientifically from marriage of the same sex. It's just regarded as something unusual in a morden society.
No, the uptight people think it's unnatural.
Lac wrote:But some developed countires approved it officially, and people looks tolerant towards such couples involved. Sex story is a quite private thing and which way to choose in marriage is also private.
Well, if this is the case then why are we butting in something that is private?
Lac wrote:It is neccessary to have an appropriate resolution to it rather than expressing morally disapprovals against it.

Lac
Exactly! Give them what they want is an appropriate solution. It's just a piece of paper, but to some people it's an acceptance of people around them that their relationship is legal. They are committed to each other. And when people look at them, they see a partnership, not just a single person without being tied down for something.

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Post by MissLT » Tue Feb 21, 2006 4:31 pm

thanaa wrote: In addition, unless we find a certain difination for whar marriage is ,we will get endless options; for instance, if someone wants to marry his sister, mother, father or even his dog why should not he be able?
If we throw morals away for this case, we're still left with the health. Do you think your child would become normal if you were married to your dad, sister, mother, brother, or even closed cousins? Of course not. We have proofs that genetic diseases and heredity is the reason why we know it's wrong to marry our closed ones. Besides, how could one marry their parents? Have homosexual people tried to marry their parents?

About the dog part, well, in the States there was one teenager who raped a dog. The dog died two after the rape because of internal bleeding. It was not even a sexual contact. It was animal cruelty. How could someone do something like this to an animal we treated as friends?

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Post by Rui » Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:14 pm

my god, LennyeTran... i must say that i agree 100% with what you have been saying on this thread, therefore my opinion its completely irrelevant here because i would be just repeating your words :lol: :lol: :lol:, i would like just to add that when we talk about religion laws we are ruin everything of the best we have in our lives, that is do what they want us to do and not what make us feel well, so... and im sure god only wants to see people love each other without wars and respect everyone thoughts its the only way to get there, but this is an old speech, when we look to tv we can see that the reality its not like that at all, final thought and more related to the thread... if you love someone and want to be with her ot him, for me its completely no sense try to decide if what you are doing its correct or not.

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Post by MissLT » Tue Feb 21, 2006 9:39 pm

Rui wrote:and im sure god only wants to see people love each other without wars and respect everyone thoughts its the only way to get there, but this is an old speech, when we look to tv we can see that the reality its not like that at all, final thought and more related to the thread... if you love someone and want to be with her ot him, for me its completely no sense try to decide if what you are doing its correct or not.
Thank you for your support, Rui. I know gay people, therefore, I feel a need to defend for what they wish to have that would harm no other people.

And the bold parts, EXACTLY!

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Re: Marriage of the same sex

Post by Lac » Wed Feb 22, 2006 8:35 am

We, humans, like to define things. We like to name everything on this Earth. Even one human to another we must have name for each other. We can't go around saying "hey you!" We think it's confusing and blah blah blah... It's the same for marriage. We made the word; we defined it ourselves. If we could do something like this, we could change it any way we want. Therefore, to what I see marriage can define in any way we want as long as we feel pleased within ourselves. There is no right and wrong definition for marriage. The wrong definition only happens when someone accuses someone else to be out of the norms.

Things always must have a name. If it has no name what would we call it ? Definintion of a name might be objectively or subjectively meaning that could be right to this man but wrong to another. You may define anything you like if you want to be out of the common conventionality. Of course I can define "marriage" to my personal understanding that is contrary to others' thought. Definition gives you nothing except the fact that it proves you to be right or wrong in the logic manner.

I am suspicious of a real love in the marrage of the same sex. Do they have anything offered together? Do they come with each other through a real love ? Of course they themselves - gay, lesbians- might have lots of reasons to explain their actions as well as the meaning of "real love". [/quote]
How can you doubt something is not real when you know nothing about it? And how can you doubt their real love when you know nothing about what real love is? If you did know what real love was, you wouldn't say it this way.


i doubt so i am willing to question . It's the logic. I am unware of something, or more exactly, suspicious of something so i need more information about that. There's also one thing to be noted is that before putting a question, one must have a preconception related to the matter involved. You do know what the real love is so you ask how it could be understood in any other way.
Lac wrote:No bad consequences have been found scientifically from marriage of the same sex. It's just regarded as something unusual in a morden society.
No, the uptight people think it's unnatural.

Evidence, please ?


Sex story is a quite private thing and which way to choose in marriage is also private. [/quote]
Well, if this is the case then why are we butting in something that is private?

Oh, you know, nothing private is without being argued and discussed ?

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Re: Marriage of the same sex

Post by MissLT » Wed Feb 22, 2006 11:34 am

Lac wrote: Things always must have a name. If it has no name what would we call it ? Definintion of a name might be objectively or subjectively meaning that could be right to this man but wrong to another. You may define anything you like if you want to be out of the common conventionality. Of course I can define "marriage" to my personal understanding that is contrary to others' thought. Definition gives you nothing except the fact that it proves you to be right or wrong in the logic manner.
Why must things have a name? If I don't feel like to name things I like, I won't, right?
Lac wrote:i doubt so i am willing to question . It's the logic. I am unware of something, or more exactly, suspicious of something so i need more information about that. There's also one thing to be noted is that before putting a question, one must have a preconception related to the matter involved. You do know what the real love is so you ask how it could be understood in any other way.
There is no other way for real love. If it's real love, it's real love. The moment you question about real love, that's the moment you show you know nothing about it. Real love doesn't exist in just between a man and a woman. It's love. It could happen to everyone and to anything. It's because it doesn't happen between a man and a woman, it doesn't count as real love?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!
Lac wrote:Evidence, please ?
The Church has been trying to condemn it. They even go further saying it's against what God created on this Earth blah blah blah. Need more information?
Lac wrote:Oh, you know, nothing private is without being argued and discussed ?
If it's PRIVATE, it should be argued and discussed by peole who are in the case. Not you, me, or anyone else who is not involved. That's what privacy means.

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Re: "Marriages" between people of the same sex?

Post by TearHere » Thu Feb 23, 2006 9:21 am

LennyeTran wrote: ..I mean, is God really that busy that he, himself, can't save every single soul directly? I thought he was omnipotent.........
may i ask what your religion is?..if you don't mind..see,. you believe in whatever you believe in, i believe in mine, i've realized this just recently.. people of different religions do not really get to agree with each other.. i mean, that's why i've been preventing from talking about what i believe in because it will just lead me to persuading you to believe me, and i don't want to do that because i'm pretty sure that you are also convinced with what you believe in.. if we try to discuss, it'd be endless..i bet.. plus, i find it hard to put into words the thoughts that i really mean..

bottomline.. it's respect.. i think i know how you feel, i would also sometimes wonder why, say, reincarnation, a Hindu belief, is believed to be true by some people and all that..(not really related :roll: to this topic,..just mentioning..)...

nevertheless, i still stick to my opinion.. :wink:

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Re: "Marriages" between people of the same sex?

Post by MissLT » Thu Feb 23, 2006 2:45 pm

TearHere wrote: reincarnation, a Hindu belief, is believed to be true by some people and all that..(not really related :roll: to this topic,..just mentioning..)...

nevertheless, i still stick to my opinion.. :wink:
From what I see, read, and learn about history of religions, the Church forbids the idea of reincarnation because it's a dangerous idea. If one believed in that idea, that person would no longer believe in the Church; the Church would no longer have the power over people.

Reincarnation means humans could come back from one life after another to pay for his karma and to perfect himself. Karma and dogma are two things would tight a human into reincarnation. Therefore, if one didn't do anything good in his previous life, he could come back again as someone or something to repay the debt he owed. After that, he would get to move on being something else.

If this is the case, people wouldn't need salvation from the Church. People would be in direct with God and their own faith. They don't have to go through the Church, talk to the priests, etc. to ask for forgiveness. And the whole idea of Jesus as savior, the Judgment Day, etc. would fall. See, it is a really dangerous idea for the Church.

For the future of the Church and Christianity reincarnation and other things have to be forbbiden. If they can't get a benefit from something, it wouldn't be allowed. Same thing for homosexuals. Who knows what Jesus or God would think, right? Christians said Jesus died for ALL sins, which means including heterosexuals AND homosexuals. However, there are maybe many things that I don't know why the Church go against the idea of God is all loving and caring for humankind to forbid their marriages. And I'm gonna find out....

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Post by Norshan » Wed Mar 01, 2006 12:35 pm

ofcourse it should not be allowed at all and even to think about it !! first of all coz it is not allowed in any religion and god has a wisdom to allow or not allow things even if we don"t know why it is allowed or not!! and when we think about it..it is something strange !! coz everything in our life is male and female..animals,plants,humans..there is a balance in our life so why we wanna destroy it !!

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Post by MissLT » Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:17 pm

Norshan wrote:ofcourse it should not be allowed at all and even to think about it !! first of all coz it is not allowed in any religion and god has a wisdom to allow or not allow things even if we don"t know why it is allowed or not!! and when we think about it..it is something strange !! coz everything in our life is male and female..animals,plants,humans..there is a balance in our life so why we wanna destroy it !!
So, you think that there's no sexual orientation of one species to another species of the same sex happening animals? :?

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Post by TearHere » Thu Mar 02, 2006 7:42 am

Norshan wrote:ofcourse it should not be allowed at all and even to think about it !! first of all coz it is not allowed in any religion and god has a wisdom to allow or not allow things even if we don"t know why it is allowed or not!! and when we think about it..it is something strange !! coz everything in our life is male and female..animals,plants,humans..there is a balance in our life so why we wanna destroy it !!
hi there... you said that it is not allowed in any religion.. i'm just wondering if you had any basis?.. see.. i have read an article about homosexuality.. and it says.. Not all world religions have a problem with homosexuality; many sects of Buddhism, for example, celebrate gay relationships freely and would like to have the authority to make them legal marriages.. ( http://www.bidstrup.com/marriage.htm )..

..i've been contemplating on this homosexuality issue recently having read the pro's side..
LennyeTran wrote: Christians said Jesus died for ALL sins, which means including heterosexuals AND homosexuals. However, there are maybe many things that I don't know why the Church go against the idea of God is all loving and caring for humankind to forbid their marriages. And I'm gonna find out....
right..i'm a christian. and like you, i'm finding out things a step at a time. what's nice about talking about this homosexuality issue is that, we get to open our minds to different views of different peoples. my religion and ethics teacher and I are gonna meet next monday, and this issue is very timely because we are talking about this issues... i'll see what i would be learning.. anyhow, i appreciate your views, it has really helped me in weighing things... and by the way, i also have gay friends, and i respect them too.. :wink:

until next time.

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Post by MissLT » Thu Mar 02, 2006 8:02 am

TearHere wrote:
hi there... you said that it is not allowed in any religion.. i'm just wondering if you had any basis?.. see.. i have read an article about homosexuality.. and it says.. Not all world religions have a problem with homosexuality; many sects of Buddhism, for example, celebrate gay relationships freely and would like to have the authority to make them legal marriages.. ( http://www.bidstrup.com/marriage.htm )..

..i've been contemplating on this homosexuality issue recently having read the pro's side..
Have you ever come across to read this article yet, tearhere? I think it's pretty interesting to open an accurate view for the Buddhists about this issue and how a Buddhist should react upon this problem, you know.

http://www.buddhanet.net/homosexu.htm

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Post by TearHere » Thu Mar 02, 2006 8:35 am

LennyeTran wrote:
TearHere wrote: Have you ever come across to read this article yet, tearhere? I think it's pretty interesting to open an accurate view for the Buddhists about this issue and how a Buddhist should react upon this problem, you know.

http://www.buddhanet.net/homosexu.htm
thanks. it really helped. about the accuracy, i acknowledge my mistake of not finding really precise articles. next will be better, more accurate.

have a nice day.

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Post by MissLT » Thu Mar 02, 2006 8:42 am

TearHere wrote: thanks. it really helped. about the accuracy, i acknowledge my mistake of not finding really precise articles. next will be better, more accurate.

have a nice day.
What I meant by accurate was that even within Buddhists, we still have our differences about this view. Most people in my family think this is a sin although we are Buddhists. And a lot of Buddhists in Vietnam I know think the same way. I think it's a part of the culture we're raised in that leads them to this point. To me, they've gone against what a real Buddhist should think and react. Therefore, it's nice to me to have this article from Buddhist site for Buddhists. It's more convincing.

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Post by Norshan » Fri Mar 03, 2006 9:03 am

So, you think that there's no sexual orientation of one species to another species of the same sex happening animals? :?[/quote]
ofcourse there is not between the same sex !! :shock:
may i know how old are you lennytran?

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Post by Norshan » Fri Mar 03, 2006 9:38 am

Hi TearHere..do you think an article is a basis ?! from where this article? my religion is islam..and it is not allowed in islam..ofcourse i've basis from quraan..and m sure that it is not allowed in christian!! try to search in the oppesite side for this issue..and then i wanna know your opinion plz..

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Post by MissLT » Fri Mar 03, 2006 10:11 am

Norshan wrote: ofcourse there is not between the same sex !! :shock:
may i know how old are you lennytran?
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... nimal.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_an ... l_behavior

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_animals


And what does my age have anything to do with this topic, I may ask?

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Post by Norshan » Fri Mar 03, 2006 12:17 pm

Hi LennyeTran..nothing i just wanted to know if you r studying in school or in uni. or may be working..thats it !!
never mind if you don't wanna tell me your age..no problem..
what do you think about your question to me?

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Post by MissLT » Fri Mar 03, 2006 4:38 pm

Norshan wrote: what do you think about your question to me?
Read the links and enlighten yourself with the scientific facts of life. :wink:

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Post by kitshen » Sun Mar 05, 2006 2:02 pm

well,in fact,i think everyone has the rights to choose the life by himself.According to this question,i think "marriges"between the same sex is acceptable.It should be legal because we should respect these people's own choice.although i won't do this,hehe~ 8)

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Post by Norshan » Mon Mar 06, 2006 7:47 am

thanks LennyeTran..i enlighten myself..so what?!
do you wanna humans be and do like animals ?! our god makes many differents between humans and animals..so we are humans and must behave as humans !!

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Post by MissLT » Mon Mar 06, 2006 5:01 pm

Norshan wrote:thanks LennyeTran..i enlighten myself..so what?!
do you wanna humans be and do like animals ?! our god makes many differents between humans and animals..so we are humans and must behave as humans !!
If you had enlightened yourself with the scientific facts of life, then you should have known that homosexuality was a common thing within animal species. This is not something unnatural to get all grossed out and prejudiced about. So what if we are humans? I must remind you that humans are just one species in the classification of animal kingdom as like other animals. Some people behave even worse than animals, so don't sit there and get all superior and narrow-minded about things around you.

Well, believing in a religion is good; however, if a religion tells you that something is bad and you should be against it, for example, homosexuality, then you should question it yourself. "Love the humankind; love thy neighbors" et cetera is a basic rule in any of the holy books. Does that rule only apply on heterosexuals? And why some people live their lives different than yours can't get treated the same when they're just as humans as you are??? What gives you the right to get all supreme to judge their love is wrong?

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Post by TearHere » Tue Mar 07, 2006 7:41 am

LennyeTran wrote:

Well, believing in a religion is good; however, if a religion tells you that something is bad and you should be against it, for example, homosexuality, then you should question it yourself. "Love the humankind; love thy neighbors" et cetera is a basic rule in any of the holy books. Does that rule only apply on heterosexuals? And why some people live their lives different than yours can't get treated the same when they're just as humans as you are??? What gives you the right to get all supreme to judge their love is wrong?
i've realized this.. in my religion, my teacher told me that, God doesn't hate people, it's what they do(bad things and the like..) that he wants to be changed..

so i've realised that it applies with homos as well..as long as they do not hurt or harm other people there's no reason for me to judge 'em (though i admit before, i had a preconceived opinion about this issue, now the picture is quite clear.. thanks to some people :wink: ..)

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Post by MissLT » Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:10 am

TearHere wrote:
i've realized this.. in my religion, my teacher told me that, God doesn't hate people, it's what they do(bad things and the like..) that he wants to be changed..
I'm sorry I don't quite understand this part. :?

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Post by TearHere » Tue Mar 07, 2006 9:02 am

LennyeTran wrote:
TearHere wrote:
i've realized this.. in my religion, my teacher told me that, God doesn't hate people, it's what they do(bad things and the like..) that he wants to be changed..
I'm sorry I don't quite understand this part. :?
what about it.. as in everything?.. i explain really bad.. :roll: i know..
anyway.. that's what she told me..see my classmate raised a Q about God forgiving homos.. and that's what she said..

oh i kind of see my fault now..was it the "so i realized that it applies to homos as well..." phrase that confused you and what my upper statement had to do with it??..
gosh i'm lost.. really bad bad english..

or did you mean by "I don't quite understand this part" is for me to explain the statement?...

sorry... i'm slow for the moment..... :oops:

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Post by MissLT » Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:49 pm

Oh, I meant what did you mean by he wants to be changed? I was confused by that part. Sorry, I forgot to bold that part.

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Post by TearHere » Thu Mar 09, 2006 8:03 am

LennyeTran wrote:Oh, I meant what did you mean by he wants to be changed? I was confused by that part. Sorry, I forgot to bold that part.
oh that...he doesn't want us to do such things... oh gosh.. still can't get it?.. nevermind..heheh..

gotta go.. my computer addict brotheeeeerrrr is gona take over :evil: oohh.. how i hate it when i have to let him use the pc.. but i just can't say no either... :evil:

see yah..
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Re: Marriage of the same sex

Post by tikay » Fri Mar 10, 2006 6:23 am

Lac wrote:To my personal view, its's entirely uncacceptable in any society.
The term "marriage" is often defined as the combination between two opposite sex. It means that it claims two different elements modified or complemented together for having the following consequences. Talking about "marriage", one frequently thinks about love, delivery, family, duty etc...
I am suspicious of a real love in the marrage of the same sex. Do they have anything offered together? Do they come with each other through a real love ? Of course they themselves - gay, lesbians- might have lots of reasons to explain their actions as well as the meaning of "real love".
No bad consequences have been found scientifically from marriage of the same sex. It's just regarded as something unusual in a morden society. But some developed countires approved it officially, and people looks tolerant towards such couples involved. Sex story is a quite private thing and which way to choose in marriage is also private.
Actually, why we forbid such unnatural marriage legally and constitutionally ? It might be contradictory to our current views but how can we know in future or a few more years ?
Marriage of the same sex brings no notion of "husband", "wife","dad" "mother", "kids", "uncle", "aunt". It seems to upset all of ordinary conception that has often been recognized as common standard for a happy family.
The topic given by Lenny TRAN is quite wide, not limited and commented in just few messages. The problem is that we should not condemn it as anything horrible like many asian countries have. It is neccessary to have an appropriate resolution to it rather than expressing morally disapprovals against it.

Lac

I have made bold the two statements you made that bother me the most, at the moment and italisized the one that made me laugh the most....and I must add that you have answered it perhaps by a freudian [sic] slip ...with "of course" immediately beginning your next sentence...very cute! But then I am so sleepy I must be getting hysterical...
In my sometimes flawed opinion...your first problem is the very suspicion of the love between two human beings who have the same sort of heart as any other human...tell me how could they love any differently?
If they have found a way to cheat their hearts and love the ones they do not feel love for while forgetting the love they feel for the same sex ...well now that would be a great scientific discovery! Right? It would be like cheating death!
And before turning in I must say that you have it all wrong about the family bit....but then you wouldnt know that unless you had spent time with all your gay friends and family members as I have... there is the same exact sort of dynamic of which you speak, it is just that the aunties might be men and the uncles women...and the like.
Good night! and Good Luck!

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Post by tikay » Fri Mar 10, 2006 6:36 am

[quote="Norshan"]ofcourse it should not be allowed at all and even to think about it !! first of all coz it is not allowed in any religion and god has a wisdom to allow or not allow things even if we don"t know why it is allowed or not!! and when we think about it..it is something strange !! coz everything in our life is male and female..animals,plants,humans..there is a balance in our life so why we wanna destroy it !![/quote]



Tikay:
Did you know that God has created...for those who believe in God.... that fish exist, who will actually change their sex....now tell me why why would a dissapproving God do this? What on earth could it mean? Also has everyone forgotten about such things as the hermaphrodite?
I am being a bit too catty maybe but I am very tired...yet I can't stop reading the posts.

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Post by tikay » Fri Mar 10, 2006 6:52 am

baby_love wrote:i think it's legal. :D U only feel happy when u get married to him/her who u love.Lesbians or gays are also people.Everyone should be respected

PEOPLE! EVERYONE SHOULD BE RESPECTED!

Thats it...I propose a scientific research for all who do not understand about gay people and lesbian people....get a few at least as friends to learn things, strait from these true experts on their lives! When you have some friends like this you may qualify for an unbiased an intelligent opinion.
Too many people take whatever they are taught to heart, questioning none of it deepy. These people do not seem to mind...acting like sheep. It is time to question any theory that does not seem quite right.
I love my friends who are real enough to question the status quo. Good subject LennyeTran! :wink:

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Post by TearHere » Sat Mar 11, 2006 5:49 am

tikay wrote: Too many people take whatever they are taught to heart, questioning none of it deepy. These people do not seem to mind...acting like sheep. It is time to question any theory that does not seem quite right.
i once acted like a sheep, but as i grow older, i learned that there really is more to life than whatever is taught to me.. the italicised statement..i agree and alot of things i have realised and learned, i discovered them by myself. i never thought of joining forums like this, but you learn, unlearn and re-learn..and there are things we need to unlearn right..? i was able to discover so many things through this.... i guess it's part of growing up.. :D at home, i'm not afraid to speak my mind anymore, and i discovered that it was okay to have your stand and speak for it....it feels so good.. :D

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Post by tikay » Sat Mar 11, 2006 7:20 am

thats it! growing up comes to everyone at different stages and we all have to unlearn as much as we have to learn !!! WOW excellant point!

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Post by Norshan » Mon Mar 13, 2006 11:26 am

hi tikay..sorry bt i didn't got ur idea !!

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Post by tikay » Tue Mar 14, 2006 6:38 am

when I was replying to you I wanted to point out that there are such things on this Earth as the hermaphrodite which is a person who has two sexes combined and then there are even fish that can switch their sexual organs at a point in their lives...I have seen this in a scientific show about the sexes...the fish will be one sex then they change to be the opposite sex...so I was just saying that as for God...how can man truly know what God had in mind, if you are a spiritual person...just ask yourself why these things would be happening...and especially this...why do these people love the same sex person sexually if God would not want it...why would God create something that God would dispise, in the first place?

Is that better? For my explanation?

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Post by desertman » Sun Mar 19, 2006 2:04 pm

Image that one day,your son took one of his classmate who is a boy back to house and said:Hey dad,this is the one i wanna get married.What would you say? And than,you got the answer for the question.

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Post by tikay » Sun Mar 19, 2006 9:23 pm

There are so many different potential responses for that suggestion so it is very vague as to what you are meaning to convey...are you saying that the average person, loving their son will accept wholely the idea...or reject completely the idea or something that is possibly way more complex would happen in this scenario?
I suggest that the responses to this situation are as vast and as various as the individual who is facing such a situation.

You answer does not let us know anything clear about how you yourself would deal with this even.... so can you go pro or con?

I think you are saying you would be the accepting/loving kind of parent but I am not sure.

I will say that having three sons of recent dating/marriage ages, this potential is so real for me and I know my answer....sad but complete loving motherly acceptance, and not sad for their choice of lover/lifestyle and mate, but sad because there are so many who be unaccepting of their love as shown in here.

Sad for them ...that it is a sometimes hard road to travel, but we all have rocky places, and I will accept they will have the stregnth to carry them through their lives and be rewarded for their authenticity in love.

I will love the partner of any of my four offspring.... accepting them as human gifts from the same universal force of energy, that creates all the choices...that one can possibly decide to imagine or act on in this world. I will only have to worry a bit more for thier safety among certain beasts, known as men of ignorance.

I hope that my sons and daughter... will be brave enough to explore love as I have, and decide what they really need from love. If it is a person of their very own sex...is it not wonderful and good that they had the courage to find out?
:?:

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Post by MissLT » Mon Mar 20, 2006 1:48 am

desertman wrote:Image that one day,your son took one of his classmate who is a boy back to house and said:Hey dad,this is the one i wanna get married.What would you say? And than,you got the answer for the question.
If my son was just a little kid, I would laugh about it. If he was an adult, I would tell him to think twice before getting married with ANYONE. Marriage is not a game; you can't just press the reset button when you have come to a dead end for another round.

I would not care who he would marry to as long as he was happy. As a parent, you should consider your children's happiness over your fear of homosexuals. If you, yourself, think your children should not get married to homosexuals because it is wrong, then you're being too selfish. What is wrong to you doesn't mean it would be wrong to others. And by all means, marrying to a homosexual is nothing wrong!

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Post by ahmads » Mon Mar 20, 2006 10:24 am

Actualy this topic is very long to read,, but it is very interesting.
I think it is very bad idea if man marries man or women marries woman:
I won't talk about religion because there are many people who you can not convince them by religion .
so ..
I think this action is OPPOSITE the nature.
we have a question now?
Why do humans marry?
The main reason is :
SAVE HUMAN RACE FROM extinction
and If all women marry women .
and men marry men . we will get a disaster
and this action increases day after day everywhere.
but If you talk about religion mmmm I'll tell you guys that the history return itself

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Post by MissLT » Mon Mar 20, 2006 6:04 pm

ahmads wrote: I think this action is OPPOSITE the nature.
we have a question now?
Why do humans marry?
The main reason is :
SAVE HUMAN RACE FROM extinction
and If all women marry women .
and men marry men . we will get a disaster
and this action increases day after day everywhere.
but If you talk about religion mmmm I'll tell you guys that the history return itself
This reason is invalid. The whole population won't turn homosexuals that is something I know for sure. Some people are straight, some are gays, and some are bisexuals. Why would everyone turn gay if homsexual people could get married? I know gay people. I like them. I think they should deserve to be heard. However, it doesn't mean I will turn gay.

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Post by CravinFood » Mon Mar 20, 2006 9:41 pm

we have a question now?
Why do humans marry?
The main reason is :
SAVE HUMAN RACE FROM extinction
and If all women marry women .
and men marry men . we will get a disaster
and this action increases day after day everywhere.
but If you talk about religion mmmm I'll tell you guys that the history return itself
[/quote]

Is this the only reason humans get married.... ??? They just want to reproduce n keep the human race going???? I dont think so... I married someone because I loved him... I am not ready to have kids yet but even when I do have em I wouldnt do it for the sole purpose of saving the human race from extinction...
Now lets assume, if gay/lesbian marriages are legalized, would you all of a sudden stop loving your partner of opposite sex now? Are you suggesting that law controls our emotions and feelings and that once legal system says its OK for us to get married to the person of same sex, we might just do it..... thats absurd !!!!

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Post by ahmads » Wed Mar 22, 2006 3:21 pm

LennyeTran wrote: This reason is invalid. The whole population won't turn homosexuals
good points.
First of all : Certainly the whole population won't turn homosexuals, and do you decide if something is a problem or not by this way?
and you can not wait a problem till erupt , then you try to solve it.
Some people are straight
SEcond of all: For what?
When we see car racing we say: this contestant is
in the road so he is a straight , and this contestant is out of the road so he isn't straight..
so in this example we use the street like a rule to decide if someone is a straight or not.
so.. you said some people are straight !!!can you explain straight for what ? straight on _______!

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Post by ahmads » Wed Mar 22, 2006 3:28 pm

CravinFood wrote:
Is this the only reason humans get married.... ??? They just want to reproduce n keep the human race going???? I dont think so... I married someone because I loved him... I am not ready to have kids yet but even when I do have em I wouldnt do it for the sole purpose of saving the human race from extinction...
Now lets assume, if gay/lesbian marriages are legalized, would you all of a sudden stop loving your partner of opposite sex now? Are you suggesting that law controls our emotions and feelings and that once legal system says its OK for us to get married to the person of same sex, we might just do it..... thats absurd !!!!
I didn't say the only reason ,I said the main reason ...and I colored main word by red ,,because I know I will received a question about this word!
And when I said main I think it means that there are another reasons,
But maybe they are less important than the reason I mentioned .
certainly I'll marry a girl who I love . and she'll marry me because she loves me.
and sex is a INSTINCT ,But the question is ?
Are there any rules to carry out this instinct?
and from where we can bring those rules!!!????

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Post by MissLT » Wed Mar 22, 2006 7:58 pm

ahmads wrote:
good points.
First of all : Certainly the whole population won't turn homosexuals, and do you decide if something is a problem or not by this way?
and you can not wait a problem till erupt , then you try to solve it.
Read that bold part a hundred times for me. Write it down a hundred times for me. Think about it a hundred times for me. When you've finished doing all these things, then you'll understand your question given to me.

The whole population won't turn homsexuals, you've agreed with me. There will be heteros, homsexuals, and bisexuals. If the whole population CERTAINLY won't turn gays, then what is your point saying that human race will be extinct? Why is it a problem?
ahmads wrote:
Some people are straight
SEcond of all: For what?
When we see car racing we say: this contestant is
in the road so he is a straight , and this contestant is out of the road so he isn't straight..
so in this example we use the street like a rule to decide if someone is a straight or not.
so.. you said some people are straight !!!can you explain straight for what ? straight on _______!
Straight= hetero. Gay, queer, fag, etc= homosexual. Got it? Are you straight? And what do you mean by for what? Why are you straight? Because everyone around you is straight and you can't be gay is that what you're telling me? :?

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Same sex marriage

Post by Profsegarra » Thu Mar 23, 2006 5:23 pm

I believe that everyone has the right to do whatever makes them happy :lol:

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Post by Profsegarra » Thu Mar 23, 2006 5:28 pm

I don't know what to say....

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Post by Laxuan » Fri Mar 24, 2006 2:00 pm

I think marriage between same sex people should be allowed in all country.when we love someone, we want to talk to them all the day and care for them so why don't we give a gay/lesbian sympathy.
I agree with Profsegarra, let them do what they feel happy about.I want to tell you that because my most closely friend is a gay, he doesnt want to play or talk with any girls.when his parents found out that, they felt offended and didnt think that he's their son any more.Now his friends hate him and I'm also embarassed to meet him but day by day he look more fainted and poor.therefore, I decide to come to meet him and encourage him in order to help him to pass through the sorrow.Afterthat, he try his best to look after homeless children, old people, orphans, etc.finallly, I hope all of you can sympathize with homosexuals
Best wishes to you

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Post by kathymimi » Sat Mar 25, 2006 7:56 am

Why not?

in my opinion, to marry whom is just part of human rights.
each one has his own rights to choose who he loves and who he would like to spend all his life with.

laws usually forbid abnormal marriages such as, a male marries more than one female at the same time or, a female marries more than one male at the same time. but laws do not forbid marraige between two people who are in same sex, such bans are not written in terms, also there are not terms of permission.

but, if there is true love between gays, why do we others forbid it? such relationships are nothing different from those relationships between men and women. they are same. for people who are in love with each other, sex is really not the point they care.

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Post by julka » Mon Mar 27, 2006 8:18 am

hi everybody.
marriages between pipl of the same sex is smth rather new in the world. And there will always be thousands of different opinions: some1 saying oh ~, how is it possible, why does our government allows these marriages; some1 says ok it's up to them, why not; and the religious point of view will always be NO. There will be falways pro and con. If you wanna know my opinion, I'am not against, and I'm not 100% for these mattiages. I'll explain why: to me it seem very uncommon. but from the other hand I can understand those pipl (same sex couples) - they do not like people of the opposite sex. In some cases it is because of nature, in others smth else. So what of that? WE HAVE NO RIGHT TO JUDGE THEM. ONLY GOD IS THEIR GUDGE. if they are happy with each other, why not. Though frankly speaking when i saw Elton Jonh and his fiance wedding, i was touched. That was so lovely, and the same time a bit funny. Two guys, and they are husband and WHO?????
Life is a strange thing, you know.

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Post by MissLT » Mon Mar 27, 2006 8:23 am

julka wrote: Though frankly speaking when i saw Elton Jonh and his fiance wedding, i was touched. That was so lovely, and the same time a bit funny. Two guys, and they are husband and WHO?????
Life is a strange thing, you know.
I believe one is less feminine than the other. Or you can put it as less gay :lol: :lol: . That one is the bride. Heh heh heh heh...

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Post by julka » Mon Mar 27, 2006 8:27 am

you know some weeks ago, there was kind of a discussion in our country. I'll explain. Gays and lesbians wanted to make a gay parade (like those in other european countries). BUT: our government and church forbided them to engage in this kind of things. I guess that is right cuz our pipl didn't get used to such kind of feasts.Though there're lot of gays in our show business, in our government, schools and wherever :wink:

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Post by julka » Mon Mar 27, 2006 8:30 am

[quote="LennyeTran"][quote="julka"] That one is the bride. Heh heh heh heh...
Sounds funny. HE IS A BRIDE. Isn't it? :) where our world goes??? what will be next??? :?

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Post by MissLT » Mon Mar 27, 2006 8:38 am

julka wrote:you know some weeks ago, there was kind of a discussion in our country. I'll explain. Gays and lesbians wanted to make a gay parade (like those in other european countries). BUT: our government and church forbided them to engage in this kind of things. I guess that is right cuz our pipl didn't get used to such kind of feasts.Though there're lot of gays in our show business, in our government, schools and wherever :wink:
Awwww... what a pity! If you had been to any gay parade, then you would have known how fun it would be. My aunt and uncle from Vietnam came to the States to visit us last year were so amazed with the San Francisco gay parade.

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Post by MissLT » Mon Mar 27, 2006 8:41 am

julka wrote: Sounds funny. HE IS A BRIDE. Isn't it? :) where our world goes??? what will be next??? :?
I don't know which one is the bride, but we had our discussion in Current News and I remember saying the thin man was the bride. "Gotta watch my girly figure, my dear" :lol: :lol:

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Post by julka » Mon Mar 27, 2006 8:55 am

Yeah, i have not been to gay parades, but have seen different gay shows in clubs. That was really fascinating, i must say, and really beautiful. I like gays cuz they are different from other guys (i mean their gestures, habits, manners) and i really think they are sweet and lovely :wink:

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Post by MissLT » Mon Mar 27, 2006 8:59 am

julka wrote:Yeah, i have not been to gay parades, but have seen different gay shows in clubs. That was really fascinating, i must say, and really beautiful. I like gays cuz they are different from other guys (i mean their gestures, habits, manners) and i really think they are sweet and lovely :wink:
The only thing that pisses me off is when gay guys are hot and good-looking. I mean, can they at least be bi and not completely gay?

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Post by julka » Mon Mar 27, 2006 9:17 am

Good question. But i think if he is gay, then he is every inch a gay. that's life buddy. If I'm natural, tham I'm natural to the marrow of my bones.

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Post by julka » Mon Mar 27, 2006 9:22 am

bis and gays are different. a complete gay will not be interested in ladies, like a usuaul guy can't be interested in a man, cuz he feels disgust even at the thought.

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Post by MissLT » Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:31 am

julka wrote:Good question. But i think if he is gay, then he is every inch a gay. that's life buddy. If I'm natural, tham I'm natural to the marrow of my bones.
Uh huh.

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Post by MissLT » Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:32 am

julka wrote:bis and gays are different. a complete gay will not be interested in ladies, like a usuaul guy can't be interested in a man, cuz he feels disgust even at the thought.
I knew that. That's why I said I hoped he was at least bi and not completely gay, for he would date women if he was a bi.

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Post by mseko » Wed Mar 29, 2006 2:18 am

Do we really want to regulate love? Why do we want to try to stop people from making loving committments to one another?

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Post by Boris » Fri Mar 31, 2006 1:26 pm

For my opinion the most dangerous thing in this field is that they want to foster baby. I think that it’s impossible to grown up to absolutely normal human is such medium.

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Post by MissLT » Fri Mar 31, 2006 6:13 pm

Boris wrote:For my opinion the most dangerous thing in this field is that they want to foster baby. I think that it’s impossible to grown up to absolutely normal human is such medium.
Is this your theory or you indeed have proofs?

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Post by Boris » Fri Mar 31, 2006 7:45 pm

It’s my opinion and making an experiment in this area is equal to breaking someone life.

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Post by MissLT » Fri Mar 31, 2006 8:06 pm

Boris wrote:It’s my opinion and making an experiment in this area is equal to breaking someone life.
Whose life? You mean the life of a little child who could finally have a home coming from a homosexual couple or what?

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Post by Boris » Fri Mar 31, 2006 8:12 pm

Yes I think about child.

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Post by MissLT » Fri Mar 31, 2006 8:22 pm

Boris wrote:Yes I think about child.
If you did think about the child, then you would know what every child needed was a home. A home! Not just a home of straight people or gay people. Just a home! And if any adult could give an orphan a home, we should embrace that idea. You or social psychologists have no proofs that a child would turn gay if he/she lives with homosexual parents. Just because you have your hypothetical ideas of this you would throw away a thought that a child would finally have a home?!?!?!??! If this is just, I would rather be gay to not belong in the same group.

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Post by Boris » Fri Mar 31, 2006 8:50 pm

First of all I know that parents are most important examples for every child. You right I haven’t any proofs but you haven’t it too. And sometime it’s better to live without any home then have many serious problems during all life. Do you ready to take this responsibility?

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Post by Tora » Fri Mar 31, 2006 9:25 pm

Boris wrote:First of all I know that parents are most important examples for every child. You right I haven’t any proofs but you haven’t it too. And sometime it’s better to live without any home then have many serious problems during all life. Do you ready to take this responsibility?
may i join your passionate conversation?

Boris, you can't judge as far as you were an orphan and were involved in all this kind of struggle. otherwise it's impossible to speak about! Every child needs a home, and this is something i share with Lennye! Sure, for my own child i would like her or him (or them :roll: ) to be straight, otherwise i'll take it for granted, i mean their being different... The family means too much for a child and it does't matter wether parents are gay, lesbian or orthodox christians... the only thing that is obligatory is their loving care to the child! :!:

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Post by mseko » Fri Mar 31, 2006 9:43 pm

Do we want all seven billion people in the world to be "absolutely normal"? What is that? I think that so many different people with different languages and different cultures doing what is necessary to live peacefully together is most important. Children can be taught -- and can teach. Love them and learn from them. Anyone can do that.

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Post by MissLT » Sat Apr 01, 2006 5:11 am

Tora wrote:
Boris wrote:First of all I know that parents are most important examples for every child. You right I haven’t any proofs but you haven’t it too. And sometime it’s better to live without any home then have many serious problems during all life. Do you ready to take this responsibility?
may i join your passionate conversation?

Boris, you can't judge as far as you were an orphan and were involved in all this kind of struggle. otherwise it's impossible to speak about! Every child needs a home, and this is something i share with Lennye! Sure, for my own child i would like her or him (or them :roll: ) to be straight, otherwise i'll take it for granted, i mean their being different... The family means too much for a child and it does't matter wether parents are gay, lesbian or orthodox christians... the only thing that is obligatory is their loving care to the child! :!:
I totally agree with your words, Tora. And boris, if you said I had no proofs that living with homosexual parents would not damage a child's life, then you also had no proofs that living with heterosexual parents would not damage a child's life. We both have no proofs about such thing; therefore, we must talk about humanity here, a belief in mankind.

Your hypothetical idea is biased and prejuded. Just because the parents were straight, they'd capable of raising a child better than a homosexual? What about straight parents who raise their children to be prejudiced towards homosexuals? What's your say about those parents? What about parents who raise their children to look at people based on their skin, race, ethnicity, etc? What's your say about those parents? And what about straight parents who molest their children?

You look at homosexuals who would like to adopt an orphan as homosexuals and not as human beings. And because you look at them that way, you directly shut your eyes turning away from the fact that a child might have a good home. That child might live with people who actually open their arms to take him in and raise him well. Those people would take care of babies that 'straight' people didn't want in the first place.

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Marriages between people of the same gender.

Post by Kassem » Sat Apr 01, 2006 6:21 am

Think outside the box. Can anybody discuss connecting a positive side with another positive side rather than a negative one for an electrical current? Connecting the same sides is a grave mistake. From this point of view, it is illogical to discuss a question like this. Simply because there are phenomenons in this world that we are not allowed to interfere in.

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Post by moerdijk » Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:47 pm

It isn't normal at all that homosexual people live together and adopt children. What a waste of time to talking about, we all know that homosexuals are very very out of mind, having sex with your own gender is absolutely crazy! I vomit off it!

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Post by MissLT » Tue Apr 04, 2006 6:51 pm

moerdijk wrote:It isn't normal at all that homosexual people live together and adopt children. What a waste of time to talking about, we all know that homosexuals are very very out of mind, having sex with your own gender is absolutely crazy! I vomit off it!
How sane are you? :roll:

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Post by Boris » Fri Apr 07, 2006 11:03 am

Lenny
You make a strange issue.
I absolutely agree with you when you speak about this such terrible thinks “throw their babies in the garbage, kill them to get insurance money, force them to work in brothels, train them to become con artists, etc”. But if adopting kids by homo couple will be legalize it’s don’t solve this problem, it’s only can bring new.
I don’t want to enlarge among of homosexuals (Do you?) because I sure that such relationship is illness, illness of brain, illness of society.
I respect private of everyone. Everyone can love and have sex with hi want. But I don’t want this population make influence for kids, and society. And I don’t understand what proof do you asked. Maybe you want to make such experiment and bear responsibility for results. And another question, do you want to ask orphan if they want such parents?

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Post by MissLT » Fri Apr 07, 2006 6:43 pm

Boris wrote: Lenny
You make a strange issue.
I absolutely agree with you when you speak about this such terrible thinks “throw their babies in the garbage, kill them to get insurance money, force them to work in brothels, train them to become con artists, etc”. But if adopting kids by homo couple will be legalize it’s don’t solve this problem, it’s only can bring new.
Bring new what? :?
Boris wrote:I don’t want to enlarge among of homosexuals (Do you?) because I sure that such relationship is illness, illness of brain, illness of society.
I've said in previous page that homosexuality is within ourselves. It's something we're born with, and it's not something we choose. If you're born as a homo, you will end up being a homo. You can or cannot show it depends on the situation and society. This is sad that people can't even be themselves because there are people who think they're being different is sick. You need to be open-minded that people are born with something different than yours are not sickos. Is this how you treat people who different than you? If this is how you treat homosexuals, I wonder how you would treat people who in special classes and so forth.... :roll:

Boris wrote:I respect private of everyone. Everyone can love and have sex with hi want. But I don’t want this population make influence for kids, and society. And I don’t understand what proof do you asked. Maybe you want to make such experiment and bear responsibility for results. And another question, do you want to ask orphan if they want such parents?
The influence we're talking about here is love. Love anyone who is different or similar. No separation between whom and whom we should not love. Tight yourself in your own pool is what Hitler did. He selected his own group and tried to eliminated people who were different: Jews, homosexuals, mentals, old people, etc.

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Post by Dixie » Sat Apr 08, 2006 9:49 am

Boris wrote:And another question, do you want to ask orphan if they want such parents?
All those kids want and need is a family, no matter the sex of the parents as long as love is involved! As long as the child is loved and raised in a happy environment, what does it matter if their family is formed by a man and a woman, two men, two women, etc.? There can be many, many kinds of families.

Do you have any idea what kind of childhood orphan children have? I'm sure you wouldn't like that for any kid. Nobody would. The more couples who want to adopt, the better, for me. Why do you think it wrong to have two dads or two moms? What do you think will happen to the child?

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Post by Cucumber » Sun Apr 09, 2006 7:09 pm

Dixie wrote:
Boris wrote:And another question, do you want to ask orphan if they want such parents?
All those kids want and need is a family, no matter the sex of the parents as long as love is involved! As long as the child is loved and raised in a happy environment, what does it matter if their family is formed by a man and a woman, two men, two women, etc.? There can be many, many kinds of families.

Do you have any idea what kind of childhood orphan children have? I'm sure you wouldn't like that for any kid. Nobody would. The more couples who want to adopt, the better, for me. Why do you think it wrong to have two dads or two moms? What do you think will happen to the child?
Well, i agree that doesn't matter for child, two moms or two dads. But only while child is the litlle one and has no experience. But what will be later?

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Post by MissLT » Mon Apr 10, 2006 3:24 am

Cucumber wrote: Well, i agree that doesn't matter for child, two moms or two dads. But only while child is the litlle one and has no experience. But what will be later?
What will be later what? I don't get your question to her... The future of the kid? The behavior? Personality? Perspective views? Or what? :?

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Post by Cucumber » Mon Apr 10, 2006 4:09 am

LennyeTran wrote:
Cucumber wrote: Well, i agree that doesn't matter for child, two moms or two dads. But only while child is the litlle one and has no experience. But what will be later?
What will be later what? I don't get your question to her... The future of the kid? The behavior? Personality? Perspective views? Or what? :?
Did you have two moms or one? Did you have two dads as the parents? Have you ever asked them about your parentage? I think that no.

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Post by MissLT » Mon Apr 10, 2006 4:57 am

Cucumber wrote: Did you have two moms or one? Did you have two dads as the parents? Have you ever asked them about your parentage? I think that no.
My mom is a single mother. I don't live with my dad. Although he does come to visit us, like once a year :roll: , I don't talk to him. Personally speaking, I wouldn't care if I had two moms or two dads as long as I had a home. Right now, I have a home; my mom has done a good job raising us. Therefore, I don't need my dad in my life. He was being selfish to step out of our lives, so I don't feel sorry for him if he thinks he's missed out anything. I am fine with my mom, but sometimes I get annoyed when people try to kiss or hug their dads in front of me. It's like, "geezzz, how nice of you, just rubbing it in my face that I have never done that with my dad?!?!?!??!"

Imagine, I, who have a home seldom feel left out when people discuss the dad-daughter thing in front of me, what about kids who have no dad and mom? What do you think how they would feel? This is why I said kids need a home. Just a home! Why do you think we still have orphans when every straight people could adopt? It's because straight people prefer to have kids of their own. This is a human's nature; we prefer offsprings carrying our blood and genes. They adopt kids when they can't have kids at all, they want more kids because they can't have kids anymore, or they are like Angelina Jolie. However, how many straight people are like Angelina Jolie? We can't afford to adopt and have kids of our own. It's just too much. And this is why there are many kids out there are orphans.

Think of the number that homosexuals could adopt. More kids would have a home. More kids would be raised with love and care. More kids would not be bitter because they have no dad and mom. And why would a homosexual couple want to adopt kids just to raise them gay? If you were born straight, you would end up being straight; you'd prefer someone whom you think attracts you.

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Post by tikay » Wed Apr 12, 2006 3:34 am

Laxuan wrote:I think marriage between same sex people should be allowed in all country.when we love someone, we want to talk to them all the day and care for them so why don't we give a gay/lesbian sympathy.
I agree with Profsegarra, let them do what they feel happy about.I want to tell you that because my most closely friend is a gay, he doesnt want to play or talk with any girls.when his parents found out that, they felt offended and didnt think that he's their son any more.Now his friends hate him and I'm also embarassed to meet him but day by day he look more fainted and poor.therefore, I decide to come to meet him and encourage him in order to help him to pass through the sorrow.Afterthat, he try his best to look after homeless children, old people, orphans, etc.finallly, I hope all of you can sympathize with homosexuals
Best wishes to you


Thank you for sharing that about your friend...these stigmas are the exact reason we are to get past prejudice in all its myriad fo forms//the exclusion from ones very own family is just so wrong to me and the society is far too much condoning these sorts of things/ behavoirs. If a child is born they should be loved... if a person exists they should be accepted for who they are and treated with respect. When a son or daughter of the earth is rejected by their loved ones for any reason something is amiss....and society suffers. We're all made to pay by the certain derangement that exists when a whole culture makes a man feel rejected. A broad example would be those who are inclined to crimes by this phenomenon and by those who take that further to murderous tendencies and sexual predator natures.
Now please do not misunderstand...I am merely saying that criminals are also rejected by societies, and that leads to the current situation... criminals who are jailed to learn more crimes...removed from society they do not recover and rejected as flawed they do not seem to be offered a new life option once time is served. this leads to more criminal tendencies...rehabilitation is not opted for because it is ususlly not really offered. a criminal has a hard time changing because he was not offered room to grow during the punishment phase...it is merely a time out to think about what you have done....some of them never learn to think logically. they cannot return to society again as solid citizens...they are forever branded.
do you think that a terrible thing is not happening then when based on only one aspect of a human in all their complex nature
(when a person is so rejected by the members of their clan) in a similar fashion, do you think they are able to thrive and contribute to society in the same way effectively and with a passion for living? i think they are being strangled by the non acceptance and I abhor it. Because it makes no sense. Why try to make devients of the healthy citizen over a sexual preferance. It is ridiculous but so common. I will fight about it for my human cousin until I am on my deathbed and no one will have to ever listen again.
I am happy you chose to be a real friend to your friend and not so closed minded and common.
Tell them I will continue to make sense of things for them... or in their sted , hopefully, bringing people to the light of truth.

All the best !

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Post by tikay » Wed Apr 12, 2006 4:15 am

mseko wrote:Do we really want to regulate love? Why do we want to try to stop people from making loving committments to one another?

Hi! :D
welcome here and thank you for your simple and beautiful statement/point... it is clear and open. You are kind.

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Post by Cucumber » Wed Apr 12, 2006 4:42 am

And why would a homosexual couple want to adopt kids just to raise them gay? If you were born straight, you would end up being straight; you'd prefer someone whom you think attracts you.

This is not necessarily that these shildren will raise as gays. Not, of course. Perhaps that majority of them will be happy in his new family. I say that they will live not only in the family. There is society including kid-garden, scool, yard and etc. too. You now, shildren is very cruel. A child with deflections is object of ridicule, but two moms or dads is nonsens for children growing in the traditional families. Emagine, what "happy childhood" wait gay's children outsaid his family?

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Post by MissLT » Wed Apr 12, 2006 9:43 am

Cucumber wrote: This is not necessarily that these shildren will raise as gays. Not, of course. Perhaps that majority of them will be happy in his new family. I say that they will live not only in the family. There is society including kid-garden, scool, yard and etc. too. You now, shildren is very cruel. A child with deflections is object of ridicule, but two moms or dads is nonsens for children growing in the traditional families. Emagine, what "happy childhood" wait gay's children outsaid his family?
:? And? Kids can be so cruel, we say. They make fun of everything because they're kids. Even if you were born in a happy family with a mom and a dad, they'd still find something to make fun of you. So, why is it too cruel for one being made fun of having two moms or dads compared to other cases? It is never nice being made fun of no matter what it is about.

If a child grew up hating the moms/dads because they were made fun of having two moms or dads, I don't think they would deserve to feel sorry for. We sometimes feel embarrassed by our parents' actions. Have you ever once in your life thought in your head, "Gosh, mom/dad, you're embarrassing me in front of my friends"???? I believe most of us would have that feeling once in our lives, but it doesn't mean we don't love our parents. We do love them. And it's the same for kids who have homosexual parents. Thus, this is why it's good for orphan kids to have a home. Just a home! When they feel embarrassed by their parents and still love them, don't you see what it means? It means they finally have the feelings most regular kids have; they're no longer orphans.

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Post by Cucumber » Wed Apr 12, 2006 3:49 pm

You say about relationship only in one direction; parents to kids. But there is other directions: kids to parents, kids to kids and parents to parents, lastly. This is a very intricate area of people's life. Unfortunatelly, kids can't choose the parents for themself, they can't take part in our disput either . If you'll ask three-years orphan, would he have one, two' or three moms or dads, most likely he'll answer "Yes, with great joy!". During he is growing he always is at variance with the traditional conception of family. He is styduing anatomy at scool and he sees that a man is bored with woman and man, his friends say him that they have mom and dad but only home his parents try to explane to him that " there is not so easy, our life has got some exceptions to the rule". Finally he'll get full comlect of inferiority complexes. I agree that there is many other reasons to be made fun for children. His parents are poor, or they are drunkards, kid have no new bicycle as they have and many other things. But this all is inside of area of "traditional psychology", where "white is white, dad sleeps with mom, grandpa and grandma live a lot of years together" This is kid's world. In other cases we are egoists are knowing only about ourself. If homosexual couple love kids so hard, let they visit children's home, let they bestow charity on orphans and do other actions such as this.

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Post by MissLT » Wed Apr 12, 2006 5:01 pm

Yes, we can't choose our parents and we have to love them no matter how they are. It goes the same way for adopted kids. You think of the kids' feelings when they grow up seeing that they only have two moms or two dads, but have you ever seen that they would get used to having two moms or two dads? Have you ever seen they would love them no matter they're gays or not. The relationship between kids and parents are built specially on love, the love that nothing could destroy. I don't find myself love my dad as much as like other kids do, but no one can come to me and talk nonsense stuff about him. It's the last string of love and respect I have for him. Same thing for orphan kids who have homosexual parents. They might judge their parents and they might not. Either way it's not a big deal. It's what kids do. Like parents who wish about having other kids in front of us or their friends as a joke, we sometimes would say, "oh gosh, I wish your mom/dad was mine." But when it comes to trading, would you trade your parents for better ones? Of course not. Well, I can't speak for all, but for me, no way. I love my parents.

You see, what kids need is having parents, a home, a love, a feeling of not being neglected. If you care too much for the aftermath when the big chance nothing like what you think would happen, then you would literally abandon the kids from the home and the love they deserve to have. You're doing the same thing their biological parents did to them.

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Post by MissLT » Wed Apr 12, 2006 5:13 pm

Cucumber wrote:You say about relationship only in one direction; parents to kids. But there is other directions: kids to parents, kids to kids and parents to parents, lastly.
I did say about the relaitonship between parents and kids.

If a child grew up hating the moms/dads because they were made fun of having two moms or dads, I don't think they would deserve to feel sorry for. We sometimes feel embarrassed by our parents' actions. Have you ever once in your life thought in your head, "Gosh, mom/dad, you're embarrassing me in front of my friends"???? I believe most of us would have that feeling once in our lives, but it doesn't mean we don't love our parents. We do love them.

To be honest, I don't really care about the relationship between kids to kids or parents to parents here. Kids always make fun of other kids, so it's not new to me. Bullies can sense their preys a mile away. Thus, it's not about having homosexual parents is a problem or not; it's all about standing up for yourself and be yourself in every situation. You never get anywhere if you're a pushover. How do you know a child from homosexual couples can't stand up for himself and fight back?

And parents to parents, why is it so special for the kids here? Seriously, would you wanna hang out with a kid whose parents judge your parents? If you loved that kid, but your parents forbid you to hang out with that kid because he had homosexual parents what would you do? Serectly hanging out with him or stop hanging out with him? And how would he feel? Sad? Of course, you were his friend. But he would definitely choose his parents over you if he had to. Anyway, personally, I wouldn't like my kids to hang out with kids whose parents forbid them to hang out with certain group of people. It's bad parenting, and they don't see it.

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Post by kalery » Thu Apr 13, 2006 4:40 am

Why do such couple must face to the problem of children?They can live together without a child.I think Their life style may be harmful to a child. When the child grow up,he(she)may also be a Gay or a Les.

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Post by gjsgjs » Thu Apr 13, 2006 3:51 pm

maybe in thinking about this question, it is helpful to think: can you imagine being told, you could never find someone to love for some reason: that, you have to live alone your whole life? Or for that matter, that, yes, you can Never Ever have sex? It is very human to want to be with someone else. And, not all couples have children. Not all couples with children take care of them. Some things, people have to decide, and some things they need other people to stand up for them. There was a time, when slavery was how people believed. There is still slavery, but now usually, it is considered unjust to treat people this way. Should people be persecuted for wanting affection and companionship?

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two moms

Post by gjsgjs » Thu Apr 13, 2006 4:01 pm

I forgot to say, my best friend had Two Moms. He now has three children, two girls from his wife's other marriage which the man was very mean to her, and a son from his wife, and he is a very very good father.

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Post by MissLT » Wed Apr 26, 2006 1:02 am

cmcole wrote: This is so succinctly put, and sweet in its simplicity. 8)

As Lennye Tran has been saying throughout this discussion, as have others, we as humans want to label everything, and this can divide and separate us into limited beings, not allowing us to reach our full potential because we might believe these labels. One example is here in Thailand where people believe that if they have dark skin they are ugly and not accepted by society. They even air commericals having people get embarrassed because their skin is too dark. The result is that kids ride/walk around in 35 degree heat covered from head to toe because they are afraid they will get dark. They would rather have a heat stroke then to have people make fun of them or think they are peasants.
I know exactly what you're talking about. And the bold is so true.

cmcole wrote:So in closing my 2 baht worth of thoughts,
LOL you're funny.
cmcole wrote: Love knows no boundaries! Only adult humans make them! Even children do not see them until adults teach them how to see prejudice. We as teachers have an obligation to teach all aspects and then let our students make up their own minds. Afterall, they really are our future, and they aren't stupid.
Exactly. Small children are free of prejudice, discrimination, stereotypes and all sorts of ~. Unfortunately, they'll pick the ideas up from the grownups as they grow older.

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Post by zaman » Wed May 03, 2006 4:59 pm

in my opinion i am still contend all what did you say it is folish we are human not animal to something such that .

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Post by Dixie » Wed May 03, 2006 8:19 pm

cmcole wrote: So in closing my 2 baht worth of thoughts, Love knows no boundaries! Only adult humans make them! Even children do not see them until adults teach them how to see prejudice. We as teachers have an obligation to teach all aspects and then let our students make up their own minds. Afterall, they really are our future, and they aren't stupid.
100% agree :!: I loved that.

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Post by tikay » Wed May 03, 2006 8:26 pm

IMHO WE ARE HUMAN/ANIMAL...depends upon the actions which catagory you fit best within.
For instance:
Serial murderer=Animal
Concious Person=Human

this is what i see :)

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Post by tikay » Thu May 04, 2006 10:10 am

WOW I was just reading about marriage last night and i have something to input to you dear new member...
This is a book i have studied for a long time that i was reading and it was brought to my attention again most recently:
Paper 82
The evolution of marriage.
Marriage - mating - grows out of bisexuality. Marriage is man's reactional adjustment to such bisexuality, while the family life is the sum total resulting from all such evolutionary and adaptative adjustments. Marriage is enduring; it is not inherent in biologic evolution, but it is the basis of all social evolution, and is therefore certain of continued existance in some form. Marriage has given mankind the home, and the home is the crowning glory of the whole long and arduous evolutionary struggle.
While religious, social and educational institutions are all essential to the survival of the cultural civilization, the family is the master civilizer. A child learns most of the essentials of his life from his family and the neighbors.
The humans of olden times did not possess a very rich social civilization but such as they had they faithfully and effectively passed on to the next generation. And you should recognise that most of these civilazations of the past continued to evolve with a bare minimum of institutional influences because the home was effectively functioning. Today the human races posess a rich social, and cultural heritage and it should be wisely and effectively passed on to succeeding generations. The family as an educational institution must be maintained.

Now this is just the beginning of a long a windy trail of thought on the institution of marriage so i will leave this for all to ponder and i am off to sleep... for I have stayed up long past my normal, early 12 or 1 o' clock bedtime.
Be well and if you like that check out: The Urantia Book, sometimes, perhaps. This book, it is amazing to me.
nighty night :wink:
shoulders are crying...

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Post by samento » Wed May 10, 2006 5:36 am

In my opinion, I think what are the effects of this. What is the word we should think seriously. Becuase if we think about moral or religious, represent "what," our view or answer is based on our religious and may be not accept this idea. And we can go beyond this what. But if we think about freedom or human right, our answer is yes. We should legislate for this marriage, for these people. After we think of "what" in vary aspects, then we will consider whether this marriage is suitable.
Do you agree with me? If it's not necessary to have only one answer, the answer's always yes for the question (I mean it should "marriages" between people of the same sex be permitted.)
So I agree that it should have the law for this marriage. Even though I have many disageement.

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Post by PARTYLAND » Thu Jun 15, 2006 4:50 pm

my standpoint is person have the right to be a gay,for law,it should not be prohibited,and should not be permit legally

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