"Marriages" between people of the same sex?

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Post by julka » Mon Mar 27, 2006 8:18 am

hi everybody.
marriages between pipl of the same sex is smth rather new in the world. And there will always be thousands of different opinions: some1 saying oh ~, how is it possible, why does our government allows these marriages; some1 says ok it's up to them, why not; and the religious point of view will always be NO. There will be falways pro and con. If you wanna know my opinion, I'am not against, and I'm not 100% for these mattiages. I'll explain why: to me it seem very uncommon. but from the other hand I can understand those pipl (same sex couples) - they do not like people of the opposite sex. In some cases it is because of nature, in others smth else. So what of that? WE HAVE NO RIGHT TO JUDGE THEM. ONLY GOD IS THEIR GUDGE. if they are happy with each other, why not. Though frankly speaking when i saw Elton Jonh and his fiance wedding, i was touched. That was so lovely, and the same time a bit funny. Two guys, and they are husband and WHO?????
Life is a strange thing, you know.

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Post by MissLT » Mon Mar 27, 2006 8:23 am

julka wrote: Though frankly speaking when i saw Elton Jonh and his fiance wedding, i was touched. That was so lovely, and the same time a bit funny. Two guys, and they are husband and WHO?????
Life is a strange thing, you know.
I believe one is less feminine than the other. Or you can put it as less gay :lol: :lol: . That one is the bride. Heh heh heh heh...

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Post by julka » Mon Mar 27, 2006 8:27 am

you know some weeks ago, there was kind of a discussion in our country. I'll explain. Gays and lesbians wanted to make a gay parade (like those in other european countries). BUT: our government and church forbided them to engage in this kind of things. I guess that is right cuz our pipl didn't get used to such kind of feasts.Though there're lot of gays in our show business, in our government, schools and wherever :wink:

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Post by julka » Mon Mar 27, 2006 8:30 am

[quote="LennyeTran"][quote="julka"] That one is the bride. Heh heh heh heh...
Sounds funny. HE IS A BRIDE. Isn't it? :) where our world goes??? what will be next??? :?

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Post by MissLT » Mon Mar 27, 2006 8:38 am

julka wrote:you know some weeks ago, there was kind of a discussion in our country. I'll explain. Gays and lesbians wanted to make a gay parade (like those in other european countries). BUT: our government and church forbided them to engage in this kind of things. I guess that is right cuz our pipl didn't get used to such kind of feasts.Though there're lot of gays in our show business, in our government, schools and wherever :wink:
Awwww... what a pity! If you had been to any gay parade, then you would have known how fun it would be. My aunt and uncle from Vietnam came to the States to visit us last year were so amazed with the San Francisco gay parade.

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Post by MissLT » Mon Mar 27, 2006 8:41 am

julka wrote: Sounds funny. HE IS A BRIDE. Isn't it? :) where our world goes??? what will be next??? :?
I don't know which one is the bride, but we had our discussion in Current News and I remember saying the thin man was the bride. "Gotta watch my girly figure, my dear" :lol: :lol:

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Post by julka » Mon Mar 27, 2006 8:55 am

Yeah, i have not been to gay parades, but have seen different gay shows in clubs. That was really fascinating, i must say, and really beautiful. I like gays cuz they are different from other guys (i mean their gestures, habits, manners) and i really think they are sweet and lovely :wink:

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Post by MissLT » Mon Mar 27, 2006 8:59 am

julka wrote:Yeah, i have not been to gay parades, but have seen different gay shows in clubs. That was really fascinating, i must say, and really beautiful. I like gays cuz they are different from other guys (i mean their gestures, habits, manners) and i really think they are sweet and lovely :wink:
The only thing that pisses me off is when gay guys are hot and good-looking. I mean, can they at least be bi and not completely gay?

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Post by julka » Mon Mar 27, 2006 9:17 am

Good question. But i think if he is gay, then he is every inch a gay. that's life buddy. If I'm natural, tham I'm natural to the marrow of my bones.

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Post by julka » Mon Mar 27, 2006 9:22 am

bis and gays are different. a complete gay will not be interested in ladies, like a usuaul guy can't be interested in a man, cuz he feels disgust even at the thought.

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Post by MissLT » Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:31 am

julka wrote:Good question. But i think if he is gay, then he is every inch a gay. that's life buddy. If I'm natural, tham I'm natural to the marrow of my bones.
Uh huh.

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Post by MissLT » Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:32 am

julka wrote:bis and gays are different. a complete gay will not be interested in ladies, like a usuaul guy can't be interested in a man, cuz he feels disgust even at the thought.
I knew that. That's why I said I hoped he was at least bi and not completely gay, for he would date women if he was a bi.

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Post by mseko » Wed Mar 29, 2006 2:18 am

Do we really want to regulate love? Why do we want to try to stop people from making loving committments to one another?

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Post by Boris » Fri Mar 31, 2006 1:26 pm

For my opinion the most dangerous thing in this field is that they want to foster baby. I think that it’s impossible to grown up to absolutely normal human is such medium.

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Post by MissLT » Fri Mar 31, 2006 6:13 pm

Boris wrote:For my opinion the most dangerous thing in this field is that they want to foster baby. I think that it’s impossible to grown up to absolutely normal human is such medium.
Is this your theory or you indeed have proofs?

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Post by Boris » Fri Mar 31, 2006 7:45 pm

It’s my opinion and making an experiment in this area is equal to breaking someone life.

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Post by MissLT » Fri Mar 31, 2006 8:06 pm

Boris wrote:It’s my opinion and making an experiment in this area is equal to breaking someone life.
Whose life? You mean the life of a little child who could finally have a home coming from a homosexual couple or what?

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Post by Boris » Fri Mar 31, 2006 8:12 pm

Yes I think about child.

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Post by MissLT » Fri Mar 31, 2006 8:22 pm

Boris wrote:Yes I think about child.
If you did think about the child, then you would know what every child needed was a home. A home! Not just a home of straight people or gay people. Just a home! And if any adult could give an orphan a home, we should embrace that idea. You or social psychologists have no proofs that a child would turn gay if he/she lives with homosexual parents. Just because you have your hypothetical ideas of this you would throw away a thought that a child would finally have a home?!?!?!??! If this is just, I would rather be gay to not belong in the same group.

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Post by Boris » Fri Mar 31, 2006 8:50 pm

First of all I know that parents are most important examples for every child. You right I haven’t any proofs but you haven’t it too. And sometime it’s better to live without any home then have many serious problems during all life. Do you ready to take this responsibility?

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Post by Tora » Fri Mar 31, 2006 9:25 pm

Boris wrote:First of all I know that parents are most important examples for every child. You right I haven’t any proofs but you haven’t it too. And sometime it’s better to live without any home then have many serious problems during all life. Do you ready to take this responsibility?
may i join your passionate conversation?

Boris, you can't judge as far as you were an orphan and were involved in all this kind of struggle. otherwise it's impossible to speak about! Every child needs a home, and this is something i share with Lennye! Sure, for my own child i would like her or him (or them :roll: ) to be straight, otherwise i'll take it for granted, i mean their being different... The family means too much for a child and it does't matter wether parents are gay, lesbian or orthodox christians... the only thing that is obligatory is their loving care to the child! :!:

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Post by mseko » Fri Mar 31, 2006 9:43 pm

Do we want all seven billion people in the world to be "absolutely normal"? What is that? I think that so many different people with different languages and different cultures doing what is necessary to live peacefully together is most important. Children can be taught -- and can teach. Love them and learn from them. Anyone can do that.

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Post by MissLT » Sat Apr 01, 2006 5:11 am

Tora wrote:
Boris wrote:First of all I know that parents are most important examples for every child. You right I haven’t any proofs but you haven’t it too. And sometime it’s better to live without any home then have many serious problems during all life. Do you ready to take this responsibility?
may i join your passionate conversation?

Boris, you can't judge as far as you were an orphan and were involved in all this kind of struggle. otherwise it's impossible to speak about! Every child needs a home, and this is something i share with Lennye! Sure, for my own child i would like her or him (or them :roll: ) to be straight, otherwise i'll take it for granted, i mean their being different... The family means too much for a child and it does't matter wether parents are gay, lesbian or orthodox christians... the only thing that is obligatory is their loving care to the child! :!:
I totally agree with your words, Tora. And boris, if you said I had no proofs that living with homosexual parents would not damage a child's life, then you also had no proofs that living with heterosexual parents would not damage a child's life. We both have no proofs about such thing; therefore, we must talk about humanity here, a belief in mankind.

Your hypothetical idea is biased and prejuded. Just because the parents were straight, they'd capable of raising a child better than a homosexual? What about straight parents who raise their children to be prejudiced towards homosexuals? What's your say about those parents? What about parents who raise their children to look at people based on their skin, race, ethnicity, etc? What's your say about those parents? And what about straight parents who molest their children?

You look at homosexuals who would like to adopt an orphan as homosexuals and not as human beings. And because you look at them that way, you directly shut your eyes turning away from the fact that a child might have a good home. That child might live with people who actually open their arms to take him in and raise him well. Those people would take care of babies that 'straight' people didn't want in the first place.

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Marriages between people of the same gender.

Post by Kassem » Sat Apr 01, 2006 6:21 am

Think outside the box. Can anybody discuss connecting a positive side with another positive side rather than a negative one for an electrical current? Connecting the same sides is a grave mistake. From this point of view, it is illogical to discuss a question like this. Simply because there are phenomenons in this world that we are not allowed to interfere in.

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Post by moerdijk » Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:47 pm

It isn't normal at all that homosexual people live together and adopt children. What a waste of time to talking about, we all know that homosexuals are very very out of mind, having sex with your own gender is absolutely crazy! I vomit off it!

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Post by MissLT » Tue Apr 04, 2006 6:51 pm

moerdijk wrote:It isn't normal at all that homosexual people live together and adopt children. What a waste of time to talking about, we all know that homosexuals are very very out of mind, having sex with your own gender is absolutely crazy! I vomit off it!
How sane are you? :roll:

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Post by Boris » Fri Apr 07, 2006 11:03 am

Lenny
You make a strange issue.
I absolutely agree with you when you speak about this such terrible thinks “throw their babies in the garbage, kill them to get insurance money, force them to work in brothels, train them to become con artists, etc”. But if adopting kids by homo couple will be legalize it’s don’t solve this problem, it’s only can bring new.
I don’t want to enlarge among of homosexuals (Do you?) because I sure that such relationship is illness, illness of brain, illness of society.
I respect private of everyone. Everyone can love and have sex with hi want. But I don’t want this population make influence for kids, and society. And I don’t understand what proof do you asked. Maybe you want to make such experiment and bear responsibility for results. And another question, do you want to ask orphan if they want such parents?

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Post by MissLT » Fri Apr 07, 2006 6:43 pm

Boris wrote: Lenny
You make a strange issue.
I absolutely agree with you when you speak about this such terrible thinks “throw their babies in the garbage, kill them to get insurance money, force them to work in brothels, train them to become con artists, etc”. But if adopting kids by homo couple will be legalize it’s don’t solve this problem, it’s only can bring new.
Bring new what? :?
Boris wrote:I don’t want to enlarge among of homosexuals (Do you?) because I sure that such relationship is illness, illness of brain, illness of society.
I've said in previous page that homosexuality is within ourselves. It's something we're born with, and it's not something we choose. If you're born as a homo, you will end up being a homo. You can or cannot show it depends on the situation and society. This is sad that people can't even be themselves because there are people who think they're being different is sick. You need to be open-minded that people are born with something different than yours are not sickos. Is this how you treat people who different than you? If this is how you treat homosexuals, I wonder how you would treat people who in special classes and so forth.... :roll:

Boris wrote:I respect private of everyone. Everyone can love and have sex with hi want. But I don’t want this population make influence for kids, and society. And I don’t understand what proof do you asked. Maybe you want to make such experiment and bear responsibility for results. And another question, do you want to ask orphan if they want such parents?
The influence we're talking about here is love. Love anyone who is different or similar. No separation between whom and whom we should not love. Tight yourself in your own pool is what Hitler did. He selected his own group and tried to eliminated people who were different: Jews, homosexuals, mentals, old people, etc.

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Post by Dixie » Sat Apr 08, 2006 9:49 am

Boris wrote:And another question, do you want to ask orphan if they want such parents?
All those kids want and need is a family, no matter the sex of the parents as long as love is involved! As long as the child is loved and raised in a happy environment, what does it matter if their family is formed by a man and a woman, two men, two women, etc.? There can be many, many kinds of families.

Do you have any idea what kind of childhood orphan children have? I'm sure you wouldn't like that for any kid. Nobody would. The more couples who want to adopt, the better, for me. Why do you think it wrong to have two dads or two moms? What do you think will happen to the child?

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Post by Cucumber » Sun Apr 09, 2006 7:09 pm

Dixie wrote:
Boris wrote:And another question, do you want to ask orphan if they want such parents?
All those kids want and need is a family, no matter the sex of the parents as long as love is involved! As long as the child is loved and raised in a happy environment, what does it matter if their family is formed by a man and a woman, two men, two women, etc.? There can be many, many kinds of families.

Do you have any idea what kind of childhood orphan children have? I'm sure you wouldn't like that for any kid. Nobody would. The more couples who want to adopt, the better, for me. Why do you think it wrong to have two dads or two moms? What do you think will happen to the child?
Well, i agree that doesn't matter for child, two moms or two dads. But only while child is the litlle one and has no experience. But what will be later?

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Post by MissLT » Mon Apr 10, 2006 3:24 am

Cucumber wrote: Well, i agree that doesn't matter for child, two moms or two dads. But only while child is the litlle one and has no experience. But what will be later?
What will be later what? I don't get your question to her... The future of the kid? The behavior? Personality? Perspective views? Or what? :?

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Post by Cucumber » Mon Apr 10, 2006 4:09 am

LennyeTran wrote:
Cucumber wrote: Well, i agree that doesn't matter for child, two moms or two dads. But only while child is the litlle one and has no experience. But what will be later?
What will be later what? I don't get your question to her... The future of the kid? The behavior? Personality? Perspective views? Or what? :?
Did you have two moms or one? Did you have two dads as the parents? Have you ever asked them about your parentage? I think that no.

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Post by MissLT » Mon Apr 10, 2006 4:57 am

Cucumber wrote: Did you have two moms or one? Did you have two dads as the parents? Have you ever asked them about your parentage? I think that no.
My mom is a single mother. I don't live with my dad. Although he does come to visit us, like once a year :roll: , I don't talk to him. Personally speaking, I wouldn't care if I had two moms or two dads as long as I had a home. Right now, I have a home; my mom has done a good job raising us. Therefore, I don't need my dad in my life. He was being selfish to step out of our lives, so I don't feel sorry for him if he thinks he's missed out anything. I am fine with my mom, but sometimes I get annoyed when people try to kiss or hug their dads in front of me. It's like, "geezzz, how nice of you, just rubbing it in my face that I have never done that with my dad?!?!?!??!"

Imagine, I, who have a home seldom feel left out when people discuss the dad-daughter thing in front of me, what about kids who have no dad and mom? What do you think how they would feel? This is why I said kids need a home. Just a home! Why do you think we still have orphans when every straight people could adopt? It's because straight people prefer to have kids of their own. This is a human's nature; we prefer offsprings carrying our blood and genes. They adopt kids when they can't have kids at all, they want more kids because they can't have kids anymore, or they are like Angelina Jolie. However, how many straight people are like Angelina Jolie? We can't afford to adopt and have kids of our own. It's just too much. And this is why there are many kids out there are orphans.

Think of the number that homosexuals could adopt. More kids would have a home. More kids would be raised with love and care. More kids would not be bitter because they have no dad and mom. And why would a homosexual couple want to adopt kids just to raise them gay? If you were born straight, you would end up being straight; you'd prefer someone whom you think attracts you.

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Post by tikay » Wed Apr 12, 2006 3:34 am

Laxuan wrote:I think marriage between same sex people should be allowed in all country.when we love someone, we want to talk to them all the day and care for them so why don't we give a gay/lesbian sympathy.
I agree with Profsegarra, let them do what they feel happy about.I want to tell you that because my most closely friend is a gay, he doesnt want to play or talk with any girls.when his parents found out that, they felt offended and didnt think that he's their son any more.Now his friends hate him and I'm also embarassed to meet him but day by day he look more fainted and poor.therefore, I decide to come to meet him and encourage him in order to help him to pass through the sorrow.Afterthat, he try his best to look after homeless children, old people, orphans, etc.finallly, I hope all of you can sympathize with homosexuals
Best wishes to you


Thank you for sharing that about your friend...these stigmas are the exact reason we are to get past prejudice in all its myriad fo forms//the exclusion from ones very own family is just so wrong to me and the society is far too much condoning these sorts of things/ behavoirs. If a child is born they should be loved... if a person exists they should be accepted for who they are and treated with respect. When a son or daughter of the earth is rejected by their loved ones for any reason something is amiss....and society suffers. We're all made to pay by the certain derangement that exists when a whole culture makes a man feel rejected. A broad example would be those who are inclined to crimes by this phenomenon and by those who take that further to murderous tendencies and sexual predator natures.
Now please do not misunderstand...I am merely saying that criminals are also rejected by societies, and that leads to the current situation... criminals who are jailed to learn more crimes...removed from society they do not recover and rejected as flawed they do not seem to be offered a new life option once time is served. this leads to more criminal tendencies...rehabilitation is not opted for because it is ususlly not really offered. a criminal has a hard time changing because he was not offered room to grow during the punishment phase...it is merely a time out to think about what you have done....some of them never learn to think logically. they cannot return to society again as solid citizens...they are forever branded.
do you think that a terrible thing is not happening then when based on only one aspect of a human in all their complex nature
(when a person is so rejected by the members of their clan) in a similar fashion, do you think they are able to thrive and contribute to society in the same way effectively and with a passion for living? i think they are being strangled by the non acceptance and I abhor it. Because it makes no sense. Why try to make devients of the healthy citizen over a sexual preferance. It is ridiculous but so common. I will fight about it for my human cousin until I am on my deathbed and no one will have to ever listen again.
I am happy you chose to be a real friend to your friend and not so closed minded and common.
Tell them I will continue to make sense of things for them... or in their sted , hopefully, bringing people to the light of truth.

All the best !

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Post by tikay » Wed Apr 12, 2006 4:15 am

mseko wrote:Do we really want to regulate love? Why do we want to try to stop people from making loving committments to one another?

Hi! :D
welcome here and thank you for your simple and beautiful statement/point... it is clear and open. You are kind.

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Post by Cucumber » Wed Apr 12, 2006 4:42 am

And why would a homosexual couple want to adopt kids just to raise them gay? If you were born straight, you would end up being straight; you'd prefer someone whom you think attracts you.

This is not necessarily that these shildren will raise as gays. Not, of course. Perhaps that majority of them will be happy in his new family. I say that they will live not only in the family. There is society including kid-garden, scool, yard and etc. too. You now, shildren is very cruel. A child with deflections is object of ridicule, but two moms or dads is nonsens for children growing in the traditional families. Emagine, what "happy childhood" wait gay's children outsaid his family?

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Post by MissLT » Wed Apr 12, 2006 9:43 am

Cucumber wrote: This is not necessarily that these shildren will raise as gays. Not, of course. Perhaps that majority of them will be happy in his new family. I say that they will live not only in the family. There is society including kid-garden, scool, yard and etc. too. You now, shildren is very cruel. A child with deflections is object of ridicule, but two moms or dads is nonsens for children growing in the traditional families. Emagine, what "happy childhood" wait gay's children outsaid his family?
:? And? Kids can be so cruel, we say. They make fun of everything because they're kids. Even if you were born in a happy family with a mom and a dad, they'd still find something to make fun of you. So, why is it too cruel for one being made fun of having two moms or dads compared to other cases? It is never nice being made fun of no matter what it is about.

If a child grew up hating the moms/dads because they were made fun of having two moms or dads, I don't think they would deserve to feel sorry for. We sometimes feel embarrassed by our parents' actions. Have you ever once in your life thought in your head, "Gosh, mom/dad, you're embarrassing me in front of my friends"???? I believe most of us would have that feeling once in our lives, but it doesn't mean we don't love our parents. We do love them. And it's the same for kids who have homosexual parents. Thus, this is why it's good for orphan kids to have a home. Just a home! When they feel embarrassed by their parents and still love them, don't you see what it means? It means they finally have the feelings most regular kids have; they're no longer orphans.

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Post by Cucumber » Wed Apr 12, 2006 3:49 pm

You say about relationship only in one direction; parents to kids. But there is other directions: kids to parents, kids to kids and parents to parents, lastly. This is a very intricate area of people's life. Unfortunatelly, kids can't choose the parents for themself, they can't take part in our disput either . If you'll ask three-years orphan, would he have one, two' or three moms or dads, most likely he'll answer "Yes, with great joy!". During he is growing he always is at variance with the traditional conception of family. He is styduing anatomy at scool and he sees that a man is bored with woman and man, his friends say him that they have mom and dad but only home his parents try to explane to him that " there is not so easy, our life has got some exceptions to the rule". Finally he'll get full comlect of inferiority complexes. I agree that there is many other reasons to be made fun for children. His parents are poor, or they are drunkards, kid have no new bicycle as they have and many other things. But this all is inside of area of "traditional psychology", where "white is white, dad sleeps with mom, grandpa and grandma live a lot of years together" This is kid's world. In other cases we are egoists are knowing only about ourself. If homosexual couple love kids so hard, let they visit children's home, let they bestow charity on orphans and do other actions such as this.

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Post by MissLT » Wed Apr 12, 2006 5:01 pm

Yes, we can't choose our parents and we have to love them no matter how they are. It goes the same way for adopted kids. You think of the kids' feelings when they grow up seeing that they only have two moms or two dads, but have you ever seen that they would get used to having two moms or two dads? Have you ever seen they would love them no matter they're gays or not. The relationship between kids and parents are built specially on love, the love that nothing could destroy. I don't find myself love my dad as much as like other kids do, but no one can come to me and talk nonsense stuff about him. It's the last string of love and respect I have for him. Same thing for orphan kids who have homosexual parents. They might judge their parents and they might not. Either way it's not a big deal. It's what kids do. Like parents who wish about having other kids in front of us or their friends as a joke, we sometimes would say, "oh gosh, I wish your mom/dad was mine." But when it comes to trading, would you trade your parents for better ones? Of course not. Well, I can't speak for all, but for me, no way. I love my parents.

You see, what kids need is having parents, a home, a love, a feeling of not being neglected. If you care too much for the aftermath when the big chance nothing like what you think would happen, then you would literally abandon the kids from the home and the love they deserve to have. You're doing the same thing their biological parents did to them.

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Post by MissLT » Wed Apr 12, 2006 5:13 pm

Cucumber wrote:You say about relationship only in one direction; parents to kids. But there is other directions: kids to parents, kids to kids and parents to parents, lastly.
I did say about the relaitonship between parents and kids.

If a child grew up hating the moms/dads because they were made fun of having two moms or dads, I don't think they would deserve to feel sorry for. We sometimes feel embarrassed by our parents' actions. Have you ever once in your life thought in your head, "Gosh, mom/dad, you're embarrassing me in front of my friends"???? I believe most of us would have that feeling once in our lives, but it doesn't mean we don't love our parents. We do love them.

To be honest, I don't really care about the relationship between kids to kids or parents to parents here. Kids always make fun of other kids, so it's not new to me. Bullies can sense their preys a mile away. Thus, it's not about having homosexual parents is a problem or not; it's all about standing up for yourself and be yourself in every situation. You never get anywhere if you're a pushover. How do you know a child from homosexual couples can't stand up for himself and fight back?

And parents to parents, why is it so special for the kids here? Seriously, would you wanna hang out with a kid whose parents judge your parents? If you loved that kid, but your parents forbid you to hang out with that kid because he had homosexual parents what would you do? Serectly hanging out with him or stop hanging out with him? And how would he feel? Sad? Of course, you were his friend. But he would definitely choose his parents over you if he had to. Anyway, personally, I wouldn't like my kids to hang out with kids whose parents forbid them to hang out with certain group of people. It's bad parenting, and they don't see it.

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Post by kalery » Thu Apr 13, 2006 4:40 am

Why do such couple must face to the problem of children?They can live together without a child.I think Their life style may be harmful to a child. When the child grow up,he(she)may also be a Gay or a Les.

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Post by gjsgjs » Thu Apr 13, 2006 3:51 pm

maybe in thinking about this question, it is helpful to think: can you imagine being told, you could never find someone to love for some reason: that, you have to live alone your whole life? Or for that matter, that, yes, you can Never Ever have sex? It is very human to want to be with someone else. And, not all couples have children. Not all couples with children take care of them. Some things, people have to decide, and some things they need other people to stand up for them. There was a time, when slavery was how people believed. There is still slavery, but now usually, it is considered unjust to treat people this way. Should people be persecuted for wanting affection and companionship?

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two moms

Post by gjsgjs » Thu Apr 13, 2006 4:01 pm

I forgot to say, my best friend had Two Moms. He now has three children, two girls from his wife's other marriage which the man was very mean to her, and a son from his wife, and he is a very very good father.

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Post by MissLT » Wed Apr 26, 2006 1:02 am

cmcole wrote: This is so succinctly put, and sweet in its simplicity. 8)

As Lennye Tran has been saying throughout this discussion, as have others, we as humans want to label everything, and this can divide and separate us into limited beings, not allowing us to reach our full potential because we might believe these labels. One example is here in Thailand where people believe that if they have dark skin they are ugly and not accepted by society. They even air commericals having people get embarrassed because their skin is too dark. The result is that kids ride/walk around in 35 degree heat covered from head to toe because they are afraid they will get dark. They would rather have a heat stroke then to have people make fun of them or think they are peasants.
I know exactly what you're talking about. And the bold is so true.

cmcole wrote:So in closing my 2 baht worth of thoughts,
LOL you're funny.
cmcole wrote: Love knows no boundaries! Only adult humans make them! Even children do not see them until adults teach them how to see prejudice. We as teachers have an obligation to teach all aspects and then let our students make up their own minds. Afterall, they really are our future, and they aren't stupid.
Exactly. Small children are free of prejudice, discrimination, stereotypes and all sorts of ~. Unfortunately, they'll pick the ideas up from the grownups as they grow older.

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Post by zaman » Wed May 03, 2006 4:59 pm

in my opinion i am still contend all what did you say it is folish we are human not animal to something such that .

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Post by Dixie » Wed May 03, 2006 8:19 pm

cmcole wrote: So in closing my 2 baht worth of thoughts, Love knows no boundaries! Only adult humans make them! Even children do not see them until adults teach them how to see prejudice. We as teachers have an obligation to teach all aspects and then let our students make up their own minds. Afterall, they really are our future, and they aren't stupid.
100% agree :!: I loved that.

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Post by tikay » Wed May 03, 2006 8:26 pm

IMHO WE ARE HUMAN/ANIMAL...depends upon the actions which catagory you fit best within.
For instance:
Serial murderer=Animal
Concious Person=Human

this is what i see :)

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Post by tikay » Thu May 04, 2006 10:10 am

WOW I was just reading about marriage last night and i have something to input to you dear new member...
This is a book i have studied for a long time that i was reading and it was brought to my attention again most recently:
Paper 82
The evolution of marriage.
Marriage - mating - grows out of bisexuality. Marriage is man's reactional adjustment to such bisexuality, while the family life is the sum total resulting from all such evolutionary and adaptative adjustments. Marriage is enduring; it is not inherent in biologic evolution, but it is the basis of all social evolution, and is therefore certain of continued existance in some form. Marriage has given mankind the home, and the home is the crowning glory of the whole long and arduous evolutionary struggle.
While religious, social and educational institutions are all essential to the survival of the cultural civilization, the family is the master civilizer. A child learns most of the essentials of his life from his family and the neighbors.
The humans of olden times did not possess a very rich social civilization but such as they had they faithfully and effectively passed on to the next generation. And you should recognise that most of these civilazations of the past continued to evolve with a bare minimum of institutional influences because the home was effectively functioning. Today the human races posess a rich social, and cultural heritage and it should be wisely and effectively passed on to succeeding generations. The family as an educational institution must be maintained.

Now this is just the beginning of a long a windy trail of thought on the institution of marriage so i will leave this for all to ponder and i am off to sleep... for I have stayed up long past my normal, early 12 or 1 o' clock bedtime.
Be well and if you like that check out: The Urantia Book, sometimes, perhaps. This book, it is amazing to me.
nighty night :wink:
shoulders are crying...

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Post by samento » Wed May 10, 2006 5:36 am

In my opinion, I think what are the effects of this. What is the word we should think seriously. Becuase if we think about moral or religious, represent "what," our view or answer is based on our religious and may be not accept this idea. And we can go beyond this what. But if we think about freedom or human right, our answer is yes. We should legislate for this marriage, for these people. After we think of "what" in vary aspects, then we will consider whether this marriage is suitable.
Do you agree with me? If it's not necessary to have only one answer, the answer's always yes for the question (I mean it should "marriages" between people of the same sex be permitted.)
So I agree that it should have the law for this marriage. Even though I have many disageement.

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Post by PARTYLAND » Thu Jun 15, 2006 4:50 pm

my standpoint is person have the right to be a gay,for law,it should not be prohibited,and should not be permit legally

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Post by zaman » Tue Jul 04, 2006 10:46 am

hello friends
until now I can insisting my opinion it is forbidden ,if anyone read any holys books he will find this easily , anyhow i am really happy cause in my country that is unlegal, I thank
ALLAh for that .

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Re: "Marriages" between people of the same sex?

Post by TURKOGLU » Fri Jul 14, 2006 8:51 am

TP wrote:Should "marriages" between people of the same sex be permitted?
To me, it must not be allowed as some of the friends in the thread have mentioned the reasons..and in a simple way I want to take the mathematical concern into consideration and the world consists of male and female ones in more or less equal rates so the order is or must be our priority and for the sake of the order of the world it sould not be allowed..as also it can create a potential homosexual population in the world especially among the youngs and teen as they have tendency to any interesting or eccentric phenomena..

for now these are sufficent I think..

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Re: "Marriages" between people of the same sex?

Post by meo » Sun Aug 20, 2006 6:10 am

my god ,what are you talking about?

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Post by Nawas » Sun Aug 20, 2006 8:30 pm

The god distingush the people from another creature by brain and we by thinking in the marriage between the same sex should be legal,we will be less than animal.
ask your self what is the results of this weird marriage???
Is it healthy and ethical??
In my opinion it is very dirty things.

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Post by MissLT » Mon Aug 21, 2006 5:25 am

Nawas wrote:The god distingush the people from another creature by brain and we by thinking in the marriage between the same sex should be legal,we will be less than animal.
ask your self what is the results of this weird marriage???
Is it healthy and ethical??
In my opinion it is very dirty things.
Are you saying that animals have no brain? And humans are not animals?

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Post by Jaime » Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:47 am

Nawas wrote:The god distingush the people from another creature by brain and we by thinking in the marriage between the same sex should be legal,we will be less than animal.
ask your self what is the results of this weird marriage???
Is it healthy and ethical??
In my opinion it is very dirty things.
One of the differences between "people" and "animals" is that "animals" don't know what "dirty" really means. And when you say "less than animal" I found you quite offensive. By the way, have you ever been into an orgy making love with women and men all mixed together. Me neither, but I think it more "human" than just having intercourse to procreate, like every "animal" always does.

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Post by GJG » Sun Sep 03, 2006 5:10 am

it is not acceptable, otherwise, there will be no more human being.
some people want to do it, that is ok, but I believe most people do not like it. :evil:

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Post by jeffcox » Mon Sep 04, 2006 1:58 pm

I have some gay friends. They are more 'human' than the majority of heterosexuals I've met. They make better friends, are more sensitive, more critical thinking, more tollerant to differences and therefore have less -isms, and they are really happy people. This is what I have noticed.

Marriage is a social concept and homosexuality has existed since the beginning of humanity. Such activity in animals shows that it is a natural phenomenon and not social. This means, to me, that most people who are against such same-sex marriages are unable to see beyond their own social or religious education and prejudices to see what is more 'human'. Try reading the Cavern metaphor by Plato.

What exactly is a marriage? A union between a man and a woman? If that is all it is, there is no need to get married, just live together. Is it a promise between two people to live together in love and respect? If so, then two people can do that, whatever their sexual preference.

For me, marriage is a state of harmony between two people; full of love, respect, understanding and tollerance. I find that homosexuals usually have these qualities in abundance.

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Post by mali » Wed Sep 06, 2006 12:29 pm

It is not good because marriage is the other topic you can not say these type of sex marriage
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Post by snowecho » Wed Sep 20, 2006 11:45 am

oh no.It can't be legal. if two girls married there are too many boys will be single

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Post by mali » Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:01 pm

snowecho wrote:oh no.It can't be legal. if two girls married there are too many boys will be single
correct
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Post by Rach » Wed Sep 20, 2006 10:35 pm

GJG wrote:it is not acceptable, otherwise, there will be no more human being.
There are actually over 6 billion human beings on this planet, the possibility of extinction because of homosexuality is most unlikely.

Marriage probably means to a lot of people something completely different, in my country a lot of young couples don't want to get married because it means nothing to them. They say, they don't need any religious nor governmental approvement for their love. It's their decision to live like that.

On the other hand, for a lot of other people marriage is a very precious thing which they want to share with that special someone they love. It's their decision, too, and isn't it kind of a natural human right to live the way we want to live? How can any state or religion dare to say what person we should love and how we should pass our lifes together with them? It's the private issue of two human beings which way of living they choose for themselves.

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Post by tmnscc » Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:01 am

In my opinion,it should be permited because Law and we can not ban ''Love''. We usually say that '' love is no frontier''. So I think it is no sex discrimination in love. The Law can ban ''marriage'' but ''love'' between sex diffrences, therefore no need to ban. All gays have right to enjoy their owned happiness by get married with their lover. We will be selfish if approving any law on ban. We can not ban only because we have our owned husbands who are sex different. Please put yourself under their situation. We also can not accept or agree a marriage with a partner who we don't love and can live with them in the remaining life.

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Post by Alfabeto » Wed Oct 25, 2006 9:59 am

First, marriage is not "natural", it is cultural. Animals don't get married. We are a special kind of animal because there is no "human nature" apart from culture and history. The problem is that there have been many ideas in different cultures about what marriage is for or should be for. In some cultures polygamy is OK. In others it is an abomination. The reasons for marrying another person have also changed over the centuries and vary across cultural boundaries. So nobody can say that one type of marriage is or has always been "the natural one". So far I agree with the people who have defended same-sex marriage. Their position is logically consistent, I will not deny that.
However...(here comes the other side)I think the laws of a country should be inspired by prudence rather than logic. And for many reasons I think it is not prudent to legislate more than one family model per society (homosexual marriages want to be regarded as families, not just marriages). I am not against giving same sex couples some rights, but equating them with heterosexual families is, IMHO, a mistake. In my country gay marriages have recently been legalized. It all seemed very logical at first, but now a same sex couple has filed a complaint because current laws only permit one of them to be a biological parent, and they want both to be recognized as biological parents, which is absurd. So it all starts out very logically but we end up with absurd situations.

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Get rid of the word "marriage"

Post by juanalex » Wed Dec 06, 2006 9:11 pm

Call them civil unions instead. Whether it is a man and a woman or 2 men or 2 women. Make things level. :lol:

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Post by wllsp » Fri Dec 08, 2006 7:37 pm

Should marriages between people of the same sex be permitted?

OK, let's think. Wow, it seems that we already have sort of unions between people of the same sex. So the bottom line is that we have a wrong question. We can't permit or not permit one adult person to live and to have sex with another adult person. It's their private live, not a crime (however the same sex marriage was even prosecuted in the USSR).

So the real question is whether to acknowledge this sort of unions as legal. A few countries have alreasy admitted this type of marriages. I think that in the USA it's going to be legal in future (if I'm wrong correct me, please). It seems like a crazy idea to many Amercan people right now but it's going to be perceived differently. For example, slavery was a nutural thing in the USA back in eighteenth century, but right now it's illegal. So it's just a shift in how our mind that is required.

And finally just one more point. I want to underline that if it is legal it's not going to change our sexual preferences. It's very important. A man who is sexually aroused wnen he sees a naked woman will not feel the same towards another naked man even if the same sex unions are legal. Our own sexuality dictates that we do, not laws.

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Post by cuongviet » Sat Dec 09, 2006 6:42 am

I agree with many people in the forum. It should be legal. They still live together whether the goverment allow it or not. Why don't give them oppotunities to be recognised by society. :?:

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Post by wllsp » Mon Dec 11, 2006 4:21 pm

I just want to add couple more points to my post.

Well, there are some issues related to this questions that aren't quite obvious and some which are more or less simple.

A simple thing is rights on real estate. If a same sex couple have bought a property together they must have the same rights on this property as an ordinary couple has. I'm talking abount inheriting it and so on.

A quite complicated issue is the right to adopt children who live without parents. Personally, I'm not sure that it is a good idea to let them do this.

So probably there might be some restrictions with regard to the rights of the same sex couples. However some legal rights have to be granted them.

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Adoptive gay parents as opposed to what?

Post by juanalex » Mon Dec 11, 2006 4:56 pm

Foster homes orphanages? I say if children don´t have a good home and there are gay parents looking for children then by all means let them adopt. There have been studies done that prove that gay parents are just as capable as a a hetero couple. There are too many children on the streets with nothing specially here in Mexico.

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Re: Adoptive gay parents as opposed to what?

Post by wllsp » Tue Dec 12, 2006 8:35 am

juanalex wrote:There have been studies done that prove that gay parents are just as capable as a a hetero couple.
I wonder if you could provide me with some links? And I wanna be sure these reports have not been sponsored by gay organizations.
juanalex wrote: There are too many children on the streets with nothing specially here in Mexico.
Look, it's likely to be OK in Mexico, but it might be a complicated issue in some other contries due to religion and current attitude in a society towards gays. Besides, as far as understand there is no extensive experience with regard to upbringing children in this sort of families. Am I right? At least, in Russia it's very uncommon to see it.

Finally, my point was not specifically about upbringing children by gays. It was broader. I was talking about a set of difficult problems that might or might not arise from legal acknoledging gay marriages.

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Re: "Marriages" between people of the same sex?

Post by vahid » Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:28 pm

hello everybody :
In my opinion this question has been answered before . if you look at animate (live stocke)in the whole world you will see just two different sex (which are opposite). what do you undrestant of this creation ? if we could marry with the same sex then god wouldnot create two genders . would he ?

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Post by waleed » Thu Dec 28, 2006 8:07 am

ahmedtaha wrote:of coursre not ,in my own point of view i think the marrige concept is much bigger than just making sex , letus ask why people married? the answer would be :-
firstly : to reserve the humanity this a bilogical answer
secondy : to make sex
may be there is another answers but the logical question will be : what life going to be if every body married from his/her sex??
ur tottatly right about this marrige not meaning only having a sex ,

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Post by crystalfrogw » Fri Apr 13, 2007 6:55 am

I don't understand why people of same sex love each other but i agree people should make their own choices. so if the homosexual people don't influence my life why should i mind?

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Post by javzm » Tue May 22, 2007 5:31 am

Well to be honest I don´t like it, and in my opinion it is not correct, it is not how nature was create. Men are ment to be with women, but well everyone is free to do what they want to do and make any decision they want to make. :D

I would just want to ask something to the gay people, well, gay men people, How is it that with the amount of pretty ladies that we have all around the world they preffer to be with a men????? :shock:

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Post by Bambang » Tue May 29, 2007 4:41 am

javzm wrote:Well to be honest I don´t like it, and in my opinion it is not correct, it is not how nature was create. Men are ment to be with women, but well everyone is free to do what they want to do and make any decision they want to make. :D

I would just want to ask something to the gay people, well, gay men people, How is it that with the amount of pretty ladies that we have all around the world they preffer to be with a men????? :shock:

People can do anything what they wanna do.
But... doesnt mean they can break the law of nature.
Men for women, not for men or for animals.
It goes against the nature of human being.

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Post by javzm » Sat Jun 02, 2007 6:04 am

I completly agree with you. You could not have said it better. Is the law of nature, men for women and no for men or animals (bisversa).

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May be

Post by ahmedxzxz » Sat Jun 02, 2007 8:34 pm

I think that marriage is something that forms a relation between a man and a woman in a legal way that is acceptable by all regardless of race or sex.

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Re: May be

Post by Dixie » Sun Jun 03, 2007 8:21 am

ahmedxzxz wrote:I think that marriage is something that forms a relation between a man and a woman in a legal way that is acceptable by all regardless of race or sex.
Sorry this statement is ambiguous :?

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Post by ahmedxzxz » Sun Jun 03, 2007 10:02 pm

I mean that marriage is only between a male and a female according to their religions and talking about same sex(man to man)or(woman to woman)is totally a wrong behaviour .And is not accepted at all.We also have other backgrounds on who follow this and why?...It's a hard subject and I cannot imagine how those persons act in that way....

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Post by Bambang » Mon Jun 04, 2007 1:55 pm

I just wanna give a concrete suggestion to all gays all over this planet.

Nobody was born as a gay.
Everybody was born either as a boy or a girl.
Then their parents named them in line with their genital. A male name for a boy babyborn and a female name for a girl babyborn. No name for a gay babyborn, because of course nobody was born as a gay.

In my opinion, there are two main factors that make somebody become a gay.

First, the environment.
Second, their choice.

Let's discuss the first main factor, the environment.
Environment has strong influence in somebody's life.
Environment can make somebody become either good or bad. It also can make somebody become a gay or not. The environment that I mean is the environment in wider scoop, including family, neighbours, friends and society. Because environment can make somebody become a gay, then it can also make somebody not become a gay.

So in short, to avoid us become a gay, just select our environment especially friends and society that we are interacting and socializing with.

Now, let's move on to the second one, the choice.
To be a gay is a choice. Not to be a gay is a choice too.
It's not a destiny. We can choose it and we can also control our choice. You can choose to be a gay or to be a normal person. So why not choose to be a normal one.

Being a gay is a choice. it's a basic human right to choose anything they want. But unfortunately, the choice to be a gay is wrong, and it absolutely goes against human nature, goes against the law of nature. What will happen in the future if men are married to men and women are married to women. What will happen to the family institution? What will happen to the society? And what will happen to the world? The answer is simple and clear, DISASTER !!! :evil: :cry:

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Post by javzm » Tue Jun 05, 2007 3:32 pm

I do agree with you, the envirment have a huge influence in how a person is going to behave and to what is that person going to react.
I would said that I don´t agree with you on the parts of the choice. Sometime is not even the person choice, what would happened if you are 4 or 5 years old and you play with your friend games that are not normal. That child will grow with that image and you know that our psycological part of the child will play a big part in his/her life. So, I would said that it is not always people choice. I am not sure if i explain my self well.

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Bambang
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Post by Bambang » Fri Jun 08, 2007 2:05 pm

Environment has a very strong influence to someone. But when they are grown up, brain is very important. I mean when we are grown up enough, we can use our brain to select if something is right or wrong. We can choose to do right or wrong doings. So finally, it's up to the person to choose what he wants to do or what he wants to be. So buddy, please use your smart brain not to choose yourself to be a gay. Because if you ask your brain whether it is good or not to be a gay, then the brain will answer NO. It's no good at all.

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Snowy*
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Post by Snowy* » Sun Jun 10, 2007 10:51 am

Hi every body

I can't imagine that!!
Can any body imagine that??????
I feel so disgusting when I hear about that...


It's really a stupid Question..
But you are very smart!!
You know that subject will attract everybody...


:wink:

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Post by mita » Wed Jun 27, 2007 5:25 am

i think people live in the world just want to be happy, if they think they marry with their same sex it's make them happy, so why we judge their action. this case is just minority, the mass of people want to marry with their contrary sex, it's instinct

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Post by Bambang » Sat Jun 30, 2007 4:00 pm

mita wrote:i think people live in the world just want to be happy, if they think they marry with their same sex it's make them happy, so why we judge their action.
My friend, life is choices. You are right buddy.
To live happily is a choice. To live unhappily is a choice too. Being a gay is a choice and not being a gay is also a choice. The question is which choice is better.

To me, there are some criteria to determine whether a choice is good or not.

First. It doesn't go against our religions.
As far as I know, no religions in this planet that allow its people to get married to the same sex. So, getting married to the same sex is not allowed by all religions.

Second. It doesn't go against the law of nature.
Getting married to the same sex is against the law of nature. Because naturally, men get married to women, women get married to men. Even animals which have no good brain as human beings never "marry" their same sex. He animals have intercourse with she animals. They never make a single mistake on this. They know exactly that he with she. There is no he with he in their dictionary. :cry:

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Post by nightwish » Tue Jul 10, 2007 10:21 am

We all know that this thing is not normal in our societies and not legal, but everyone of us have the choice to live his/her life as he/she wants it to be, and to do what he/she thinks that makes him/her happy and content, but not to forget that everything have limits and in order not to hurt other people.
As I can see by doing this thing no one get hurt, and it's not that big deal or problem.
So I'm not against this thing.

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Post by Krisi » Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:15 pm

:arrow: It's there life. :wink:

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Post by Bambang » Fri Jul 20, 2007 3:23 pm

nightwish wrote:We all know that this thing is not normal in our societies and not legal, but everyone of us have the choice to live his/her life as he/she wants it to be, and to do what he/she thinks that makes him/her happy and content, but not to forget that everything have limits and in order not to hurt other people.
As I can see by doing this thing no one get hurt, and it's not that big deal or problem.
So I'm not against this thing.
krisi wrote:It's there life.
Supernaturally speaking, dear Nightwise and Krisi could get married.

Uncle Bambang supports that idea !

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Post by Krisi » Sun Jul 22, 2007 5:10 am

:D :arrow: Honestly, this is comical. But it's their life we're out of this.

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Must U look to the problem

Post by maksoora » Thu Aug 02, 2007 2:24 pm

Should "marriages" between people of the same sex be permitted
I think this is madness . really it is not freedom as some said. I wonder who these people love the same sex. I believe the truth loved between two different sex. i consider such situation as a problem must all world take action coz they corrupt the legal rule.
as all said am against marrgies of the same sex

while am reading this subject raised question in my mind which is what is the main problem of marriages of the same sex?I hope all look to the problem
Thank u

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This is also our problem.

Post by Bambang » Fri Aug 03, 2007 3:44 pm

krisi wrote::D :arrow: Honestly, this is comical. But it's their life we're out of this.
Dear Krisi,

We're not out of this.

This is also our problem.

What would happen if 50 % of this world population got married to the same sex?

What a mess :!:

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Post by nightwish » Sat Aug 04, 2007 11:23 am

What a mess :!:
what kind of a mess?...

it might sounds like an unusul or an extraordinary thing. But, we can't change anyone's conceptions and perspectives, just by saying: "this thing that you do is wrong, and an illegal thing". Briefly, we can't prevent him/her of doing what makes him/her feel happy. In the end, its his/her own life we can disagree with him/her but we can't just come and prevent him/her of doing such a thing.

that's my opinion :!:

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We need balances

Post by Bambang » Sat Aug 04, 2007 1:12 pm

"Keep your balance or you'll fall"

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Post by Moody » Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:34 am

First of all we need to see that word,"marriage" or "marry" originates from where? It originate from religion. And all religions unanomously describes it as spirtual binding between man and women only. And all Abrahimic religions disapprove gay or lesbian relationships or binding. So, if somebody wants to bind them self in the same sex relationship, then WHY insist on word marriage (or in other words seek religious approval)??? If you can choose to live your way, then why ask religions to change their meanings or ways according to your rules! If you have the legal right, YOU CAN MAKE A CHOICE, BUT IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THE RELIGIONS ARE ALSO LEGALLY BOUND TO CHANGE THEIR MEANINGS TOO!!

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Post by lady » Wed Aug 15, 2007 11:05 am

in my opinion think it different namely this exchangeable according to people[/u][/i]

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Post by Moody » Sat Sep 08, 2007 3:09 pm

lady wrote:in my opinion think it different namely this exchangeable according to people[/u][/i]
What do you mean by that?
Are you asking, to read the minds or to change the meaning of words?

I'm sorry but for me gay relation means going in toooo deeeep s.h.i.t....no offense but you know what I mean, I just can't imagine!!

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Post by Alfabeto » Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:42 pm

"Same-sex marriage" is an oxymoron. It's impossible because the concept of marriage or "matrimony" (from Latin "mater" = mother)necessarily involves a man and a woman. It's possible however to create a similar institution just for gay people and call it something else.

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Post by quangson » Tue Dec 04, 2007 8:46 am

i'm afraid of the gaymen

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Re: "Marriages" between people of the same sex?

Post by ANAS » Sun Dec 30, 2007 8:25 pm

in fact, this is nats.

I can't believe that happen in somewhere on the earth. As you know that is unusual and against the natural. The people who do it must treat him self form this ill before miss his life.

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Re:

Post by MissLT » Mon Dec 31, 2007 3:49 am

[quote="Moody"]First of all we need to see that word,"marriage" or "marry" originates from where? It originate from religion. And all religions unanomously describes it as spirtual binding between man and women only. And all Abrahimic religions disapprove gay or lesbian relationships or binding. So, if somebody wants to bind them self in the same sex relationship, then WHY insist on word marriage (or in other words seek religious approval)??? If you can choose to live your way, then why ask religions to change their meanings or ways according to your rules! If you have the legal right, YOU CAN MAKE A CHOICE, BUT IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THE RELIGIONS ARE ALSO LEGALLY BOUND TO CHANGE THEIR MEANINGS TOO!![/quote]


May I ask you what a religion usually teaches you? Does love, the basic and power of all things on earth, involve? Or is it merely a foundation that you can grab on to escape your fear of different beliefs? This world has so much hate because of fear of the unknowns. Life is too short to even love, so why must you spend your time to hate and forbid people to do things that bound to pure love?

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