Identity cards are a waste of time and money.

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Identity cards are a waste of time and money.

Postby TalkingPoint » Thu May 18, 2006 8:19 pm

Identity cards are a waste of time and money.

What do you think?
Last edited by TalkingPoint on Sat Jun 24, 2006 3:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby MissLT » Fri May 19, 2006 4:16 am

No. It helps the system to locate your family and deliver your news to them if anything happens to you while they're not around.

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Postby Hardi » Fri May 19, 2006 9:02 am

LennyeTran wrote:No. It helps the system to locate your family and deliver your news to them if anything happens to you while they're not around.
First time hear! ...You teasting, isn't? I don't think it's waste of time and money. It can save your time and money, by sign digital signature and identify you self in internet.. If it's develop well. You don't need to sit in traffic jam in road. U can instead sit in traffic jam of internet. The negative side can be also that computers may enslave monkind in the end.. I mean you relay to much of computers and id card...

In Estonia, is id card in use some years. The only security risk, I know so far that have been, is that everyone whom electronic certificates are activated. birthyear and id number are bublick in a ldap server.. Some bank also accepted the id number as identify, for case, if your credit card is stolen and you wanna disable it. So if you know a person full name and his/her bank. you can get teh id number and call to bank and disable his/her credit cards. But it also bring much security when make money transfer over internet, because it's almost keyloger and other spy -proof..

For me is id card really kinda useless, because I boycott banks as much as possible. allways try to use cash, because estonian banks are all sold to swedish. Why I should give my money to fat swedish banker. Though It's very difficult to use only cash everywhere.

Actually is this id card thing really a piece of junk. I had so many troubles to get it work with my father's computer with windows2000 and firefox... Instead of giving good instruction how to install all software and what pieces of software is need, is it made that you connect a smart cardreader, open a webpage by Internetexplorer and then all necessary will be installed automatically.. Yet there was some instructions, how to get it work with firefox and other platworms too but.. I failed and used ie. And in the bank I did not got sign thing work at all.. I think some win2000, java, firefox and someones m$ love problem.

PS. with my own linux pc I have not tried, if I'm able to get it working yet.
Last edited by Hardi on Sat May 20, 2006 2:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby MissLT » Fri May 19, 2006 8:07 pm

Well, we don't really have the identity cards in the States yet, I believe, but I've heard people talking about it. And truthfully speaking, I don't really know the difference between the identity card and the identification card we have from the DMV right now. Since right now, our identification card contains ID number, expiration date, name, address, sex, hair color, eye color, height, weight, DOB, signature, and the picture. There's a little pink donate sticker, which we have a choice whether to stick it on our card or not is up to us. For mine, I have the sticker. My body will be donated when I die.

To me, our identification card is pretty useful to identify who you are and what's yours in some ways. For a start, we use it as a means to identify our credit cards are truly ours. Or we use it to prove we're legal to buy alcohol, be in an adult area, apply for credit card from certain shopping stores, etc.

This is why I said the system can use it to locate our family if anything happen to us. They can do this with identification card, so they can definitely do this with identity card, right? I don't know anything about using your ID card on the Internet, so I don't know how dangerous this identity card could create. About the terminating one's bank account... well, I don't see a big deal about it beside annoyance. In the States, the theft can't terminate the old card and open another one without the Social Security number. We need our SSN along with our ID to open a bank account here. And they definitely don't accept our ID number to purchase something online. In short, it only works to identify. For other purposes, it's pretty much useless.

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Postby Hardi » Fri May 19, 2006 10:15 pm

Stupid me didn't understand what you mean. Well terminating someones credit card, It's annoying. Basically someone steals your identity. I think there was a case when someone fooled traffic police, by telling them someones else name and id number. And it's really hard to waste your name clean, if it's allready in police list. Else it doesn't create dangerous. It's kinda secure, only if the government self don't do somethink bad.. Or if certification centrum using microsoft servers.. then maybe bill gates will hack it.

Currently I don't know, how many uses Estonian id card have.. I know there is electronic ticket system for public transport in city and there is also possible to check in internet what the data the gov. have collected about you.. driver license, car that you own.. etc. And last year was possible to elect in municipal election over net, but I did not trusted it, because there was system that u can change your vote several times until the end of election. That's mean they store your name and whom you elected. How I can be sure that someone don't get that information later and use against off me? Sorry Hardi, you elected wrong way, we can nothing to do for you.

We also don't have such data like fingerprint or eye iris yet in card. Only regular things, like name photo and so.. Actually I'm not sure, if the photo is actually saved into chip too, or only printed, because if I but the card into reader and open the id card utility, It doesn't show it before I click download picture button..

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Postby tikay » Sun Jun 04, 2006 1:03 am

The real trouble with this ID card is the picture...that woman should be younger looking...is that even me???
:lol:

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Postby samento » Mon Jun 05, 2006 6:49 am

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Well, we don't really have the identity cards in the States yet, I believe, but I've heard people talking about it.

I must say that I don't know exactly about identity cards. In my country, we have identification cards for representing a legal person (when we are 15 years old or more.) It contains an owner picture, name, address, blood group, and birthday. In addition, it includes an expired date. These ID cards have many benefits. First, it tells me who you are. Second, in many goverment places we have to show our ID cards to contact to them. Further more, ID cards are a stronger evidence to show that you have right to go into some places, suchas a nignt club.
Finally, whenever has a political election, you need to show your ID card before you choose a candidate. This is the neccessity for protecting your rights.
And because of these advantages, I summarize that it don't waste times and money to make an identification card.
* Please pardon me that I express my opinion about ID cards. Because I don't know exactly what identity cards are.

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Postby samento » Mon Jun 05, 2006 7:31 am

I just read this topic in "talking point homework." And I want to express my new aspects about ID cards that opposite extremely to the previous opinion.
First of all. The UK goverment want to use ID cards because of protecting their people to terrorists. And they hope this is the one of the measures to against a terrolism. But this way violates our right. The goverment will know every secrets that you don't want to show. If the goverment doesn't have laws to protect our rights from misuse by unresponsible persons, we all must agaist ID cards using. In the other hand, how do they know who is a terrorist? How sure are they that don't give an ID card to a terrorist?
Additional, If we lose them, the goverment should have a 24 hours service to lock our data that don't allow thieves to hack them or use our ID cards for other benefits.
The last, because this is for national security, not for individual security, we shouldn't pay for these.

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Postby MissLT » Sun Jun 11, 2006 4:31 pm

Hardi wrote: Sorry Hardi, you elected wrong way, we can nothing to do for you.

Tell them, "it's my twin, man!" :lol:

Hardi wrote:We also don't have such data like fingerprint or eye iris yet in card. Only regular things, like name photo and so....

Neither do we, I believe.

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Postby MissLT » Sun Jun 11, 2006 4:32 pm

samento wrote:I just read this topic in "talking point homework." And I want to express my new aspects about ID cards that opposite extremely to the previous opinion.
First of all. The UK goverment want to use ID cards because of protecting their people to terrorists. And they hope this is the one of the measures to against a terrolism. But this way violates our right. The goverment will know every secrets that you don't want to show. If the goverment doesn't have laws to protect our rights from misuse by unresponsible persons, we all must agaist ID cards using. In the other hand, how do they know who is a terrorist? How sure are they that don't give an ID card to a terrorist?
Additional, If we lose them, the goverment should have a 24 hours service to lock our data that don't allow thieves to hack them or use our ID cards for other benefits.
The last, because this is for national security, not for individual security, we shouldn't pay for these.

Exactly!

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Postby purplesnails » Mon Jul 10, 2006 1:28 am

I wouldn't mind them if they weren't so expensive, right now I have no proof of my age, i've just turned 18 but can't do anymore than i could when i was 17 because i don't have a provisional or passport, and for a student with 5 other brothers and sisters and a recently redundant father the cost to buy a passport or provisional is beyond me especially when i don't plan to drive or go abroad! They should introduce these ID cards and make them either very cheap or free, why should i have to pay so much JUST to prove my age?! :evil:

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Postby MissLT » Mon Jul 10, 2006 6:20 am

How much do you have to pay?

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Postby purplesnails » Mon Jul 10, 2006 1:15 pm

Well apparently these cards are going to be from around £100 up to £300, it's a ridiculous amount. Why do we have to pay so much for one! It'll mean the poorer people can't afford to prove who they are!

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Postby tikay » Mon Jul 10, 2006 11:10 pm

there should really be no charge to a governments people for the ID that they often require....unless they can subsidise the cost somehow. There is too much poverty in the world to require that people sometimes forego a healthy diet or this or that....gas to go to work to put food upon the table...or whatever. the resentment I feel for so many people is palpable. i only hope that these high charges for your ID, are lowered, so that you can afford them for your whole family... when they are needed to do certain things that should be a right and not a priviledge. (Like driving, getting passports ect.)
It cost about 20 U.S. dollars here for an ID. Not bad by comparison!
I believe that equates to around 160 US...could you tell us the amount in dollars?

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Postby MissLT » Tue Jul 11, 2006 1:27 am

:shock: $20? I thought it was $12?

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Postby rayuela » Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:18 am

I didn´t know it was so expensive!!!
Here in Spain it costs about 6€ (if it´s your first time or you are going to renew the ID), but the double if you have lost it!
We call the ID "DNI" and in 2008 the DNIs are going to be electronic, with a chip like credit cards. You will have inside the ID chip a public and a private password for accessing to your signature and other things... What do you thing about that? Do you think the electronic ID cards are going to be safer and are going to avoid falsifications?

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Postby Hardi » Tue Jul 11, 2006 1:41 pm

Here cost it 150 EEK (~12$ or 10€). For children who are younger than 15 year or old or disabled peoples it's 25 EEK.


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