Bambang wrote:My dear friend, certainly, it's up to you to choose. I also do not have intention to force my opinion to all, included you. So, on this case, we are not in same line. I belong to the first group, the fighter and you belong to the second one. No problem my friend. That's the essence of a discussion buddy. You can take my point of views and you can also get rid of them. That’s normal.
My friend, firstly, I don´t have the intention to force your opinion, that´s not the point because, as you said, that´s the core of the discussion, when you can hear different points of views and enrichment your perception of things. Second, I have said, and I´ve been very consistent with this, that I would fight If two condition are fulfilled:
1) If I strongly believe in the cause I´m fighting for, and
2) If I can assure my family future.
I´ll give you a case where I would fight: If my country is invaded and I considered that action doesn´t have any logical justification and also, I manage to assure my family´s future without me, for example, sending them to live abroad. In this case I would fight with all my heart to defend my ideals without any distraction, so in that way, I can give my best for the cause I´m fighting for.
Bambang wrote:Well my friend, we can play our own roles to solve this problem. If one group fights the war inside the country and the other group fights it outside, it would be a very good synergy. Yeah, fight it inside and outside country. But my friend, your fund raising activities, speeches, or the like are useless when there are only very few people fight inside. They will not respect you and even they will not give you their hands. They will appreciate you when the majority of your people fights the war inside and a small number of the people do the fight outside and do some diplomatic approaches. So, in this case, your country needs more fighters inside. But once again my friend, that’s your choice. I can not force to take it.
As you said my friend, it´s a synergy. Also, It I guess it would be completely useless if you have an entire nation fighting but they don´t have enough resources to fight back, in the case that your enemy have more resources than you. So, with this idea in mind, I´ll tell you that I could be more effective doing diplomatic work instead to fight a war where I can´t be absolulety focus on my duty. But, as you said, It´s a matter of choice and more important a matter of conviction.
bambang wrote:My friend, no countries in this planet has the right to invade other independent countries. Iraq is an independent country. If there is a problem inside it, then the country itself should solve their own problem. Other countries just have the right to give advice or help or the like, but they don’t have the right to give "an invasion". They don’t have the right to kill others. It absolutely goes against the Universal of Human Right Acts.
I wanna link this comment you have made with mine in the first paragraph. I´ll quote myself:
If my country is invaded and I considered that action doesn´t have any logical justification
My opinion is that we need to see an invasion in the context it takes place. I disagree with you when you said that no countries has the right to invade others. For example, Imagine that your country is attacked by an extrenal one which is lauching missiles from its territory. To me, it completely justificable to invade that country which is attacking mine. Or Are you going to do nothing to stop it just because you have to respect its sovereignty? Or are you gonna advice it to stop the attack? That´s why I said that some invasion are neccesary, but it must have a pretty good justification.
bambang wrote:Then he said Saddam was a killer. But in fact - and I’m convinced that you are in line with me in this case- Mr bush himself is the real killer. He has killed people more than he suspected to Saddam
I don´t know which one is the worst. To me, both are very alike and the good thing is that at the end, in some way, justice prevail. In the case of Saddam, who wasn´t an angel, well, we know how he ended up and regarding Mr Bush , well everybody hates him and he´s become in the most unpopular president in the history of the United States, and to a person who is arrogant and with the inflated ego that is some kind of punishment.
Bambang wrote:My friend, this is a different case. The American soldiers are not defensing their country and protecting their families. In fact, they are invading other country !!! They will not be considered as cowards if they try to seek asylum in other countries. They are even considered as heroes, because they are trying to uphold justice and truth in this planet.
You said that because you´re thinking as a Philippine and not as American (I suppose you´re Indonesian because your location is Jakarta). Remember that Mr Bush made up a new way to "protect" them and sadly, they bought it. So, in their minds they were protecting their country and their family and I respect that, even though I didn´t agree with their arguments....