Just a Thought: France,Riots & Lefties

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Just a Thought: France,Riots & Lefties

Postby Danyet » Thu Nov 10, 2005 7:43 am

Just a thought from Horowitz

The Muslim riots in France, orchestrated by cell phones and a political directorate that has spread the violence not only across France but across Europe, is an obvious escalation of the Islamic jihad that seeks to conquer the infidel world for the Muslim faith.
It would be unkind to say that the French deserve it, but they do. This is the country that has done more to sabotage the war on Islamic terror and Muslim imperialism than any other. It has relentlessly preached appeasement of the enemy and condemnation of us, as the chief obstacle to Islamic despotism. It was the French who sabotaged the efforts to contain Saddam peacefully and prevent him from developing a weapons laboratory for his terrorist allies.
The left is still propagating the deadly lies that Saddam was 1) a secularist who did not support al-Qaeda, 2) who had no role in the Islamic attacks on the United States that began with the blowing up of the World Trade Center in 1993, 3) who did not provide Iraqi soil and protection to Islamic terrorists like Zarqawi, and 4) whose plans to build a weapons of mass destruction ~ to use against the United States and its allies were not thrwarted by the war of March 2003. All of these lies of the left have been thoroughly refuted, yet they go on.

Where are the apoligies by all those liberals and leftists who pointed fingers at the Spanish and British saying, "If you had not supported the United States' war in Iraq you would not be under attack now? The French were Saddam's and Islam's closest allies in the West.
Yet France is now the target of an Islamic jihad that is destroying the fabric of French society. The lesson for slow-witted liberals is this: The Islamic imperialists don't give a fig for what you do or what you say or what you believe in their behalf. They are holy warriors. You are infidels. You will convert or die.

History will judge harshly the saboteurs of George Bush's war to defend the West against radical Islam. As a result of Bush's offensive, Osama bin Laden and his henchmen are already effectively dead.That is the only reason 300 million Americans have been safe from attack since 9/11. What is Osama's role in the terror of the post 9/11, post-Afghanistan invasion years? So far as we know it is nil. The Bush war team has driven bin Laden into an exile from which there is no return. He orchestrates nothing; he is nothing, but a symbol kept alive by his al-Qaeda cohorts and his anti-Bush allies in the West.
So another deadly liberal lie, designed to weaken the support for the West's war against terror is exploded: that the war in Iraq is a distraction from the war on terror. Just the opposite is true: the war in Iraq is the key to the war on terror.
Imagine if Iraq was controlled by Zarqawi which is what Michael Moore and Cindy Sheehan fervently wish for, and what Howard Dean and Ted Kennedy would accomplish. What do you think a Zarawai who was not pinned down by U.S. soldiers and marines would do with the Intifada in France? What would Saddam do (if the peace movement had been successful in keeping him in power)? Does anyone doubt he would give as much support to the Intifiadists in Europe as he did to the suicide bombers in Israel?

The French have even tried Jew- and Israel-bashing to appease the Islamic Jew-haters. It didn't work. The reason it didn't work is because Jew-hating is only the beginning of their sick fundamentalist creed. They hate Christians and Hindus and atheists too, and even Muslims who do not subscribe to their Islamo-fascist faith.

These are the lessons of France. The question is: will the French and all the other appeasers learn them now?

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Postby MissLT » Thu Nov 10, 2005 8:23 am

I had a discussion with my bf about this riot. According to him, technically it's the French's fault behind all this. They discriminate other races and religions. They don't give colored people or non-French people have the opportunities in their country. They'd let the French have the high priorities first and then the non-French people. I mean, what's the point of letting people in your country and then you won't let them have the opportunities in the jobs?
Well, to me, either don't let them in or let them in and control them wisely. Don't push them to the edge at the very core. People will strive when they're being pushed too much.

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Postby Danyet » Thu Nov 10, 2005 8:40 am

I think that there is some truth to that too! But even the "modest" Muslims will not adapt to their host country's culture.

European countries especially have thrown their doors open to a large influx of Moslem immigrants who have no intention of becoming part of the cultures of the countries to which they immigrate but to recreate their own cultures in those countries.
Western nations have welcomed people who respect neither the cultures nor the rights of the population among whom they have settled.
In Michigan, a Moslem community loudly sounds their calls to prayer several times a day, without regard to whether that sound bothers the original inhabitants of the community.
But even “moderate” Moslem organizations in the West who deplore violence and try to discourage it nevertheless encourage their followers to remain foreigners rather than become part of the countries they live in.

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Postby Rui » Thu Nov 10, 2005 11:03 am

i agree with you danyet, in some way it's truth what you have said about people that don't cares about the society where they are living but they want to create a equal society as they had in their native country, i think those people that have chose france to live should understand the good and bad things about the way of life in france, otherwise we also should look to the side of those that are discontents with the government of france, because everyone has the right to equal opportunities, and i think it's a mix of all this problems that have as result in this problems, it's a very delicate situation and to be honest i don't know what is the best way to solve this problems.

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Postby Dixie » Thu Nov 10, 2005 11:46 am

danyet wrote:European countries especially have thrown their doors open to a large influx of Moslem immigrants who have no intention of becoming part of the cultures of the countries to which they immigrate but to recreate their own cultures in those countries.
Western nations have welcomed people who respect neither the cultures nor the rights of the population among whom they have settled.


It's true :!: There are more Muslims every day here, living with us, but they just won't adapt themselves to the new country or culture. You can still see those women hiding their entire bodies from head to toes, even in the hottest months. :?

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Postby MissLT » Thu Nov 10, 2005 8:43 pm

danyet wrote:I think that there is some truth to that too! But even the "modest" Muslims will not adapt to their host country's culture.

The way I see it is they are proud of their religion and where they come from. For instance, my coworkers and manager are Pakistani Muslims who were born in the States or have been here for more than 20 years; however, they always trash about this country. Every time white people come in and leave, they would start talking ~ behind those people's backs such how racist white men are, how the system sucks that only white men control it, etc. Once I asked them why they were doing the talking, they said this country sucked. And I asked them why they were here if the country sucked. They said it was because they needed the money and good conditions. I said to them that if they needed the money from a country, which could be able to provide that opportunity to them, then instead of being bitter and doing trash-talking, they should appreciate for what they're having right now. To some cultures, America is the fault of their failure. All I could do is shake my head and say nothing more because nothing we say would get into their heads.

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Postby Danyet » Fri Nov 11, 2005 12:45 am

LennyeTran wrote:
danyet wrote:I think that there is some truth to that too! But even the "modest" Muslims will not adapt to their host country's culture.

The way I see it is they are proud of their religion and where they come from. For instance, my coworkers and manager are Pakistani Muslims who were born in the States or have been here for more than 20 years; however, they always trash about this country. Every time white people come in and leave, they would start talking ~ behind those people's backs such how racist white men are, how the system sucks that only white men control it, etc. Once I asked them why they were doing the talking, they said this country sucked. And I asked them why they were here if the country sucked. They said it was because they needed the money and good conditions. I said to them that if they needed the money from a country, which could be able to provide that opportunity to them, then instead of being bitter and doing trash-talking, they should appreciate for what they're having right now. To some cultures, America is the fault of their failure. All I could do is shake my head and say nothing more because nothing we say would get into their heads.


I think that it is only natural for immigrants to have a certain amount complaint about America because no where is perfect. I speak with many foriegners privately about this because I am am one. But this is usually limmited to complaints about the differences in social customs. I think that Americans are more guarded about their true feelings. Whereas some people from other places tend to express themselves more openly. I have seen this difference cause confusion many times in the past here in the USA. I think that my Russian friends here in the USA would probably prefer life in Australia over America for this reason.

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Postby MissLT » Fri Nov 11, 2005 5:19 pm

danyet wrote: I think that it is only natural for immigrants to have a certain amount complaint about America because no where is perfect. I speak with many foriegners privately about this because I am am one. But this is usually limmited to complaints about the differences in social customs. I think that Americans are more guarded about their true feelings. Whereas some people from other places tend to express themselves more openly. I have seen this difference cause confusion many times in the past here in the USA. I think that my Russian friends here in the USA would probably prefer life in Australia over America for this reason.

:? Then why are you here? Why didn't you migrate to Australia? I, myself, don't appreciate to see immigrants who complain about the place they are staying in. It's because it shows me that they have no appreciation for the opportunities that they're granted by the place they're complaining about. It's okay for me to see native borns talking trash about their countries; it's their countries after all.

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Postby Danyet » Fri Nov 11, 2005 6:05 pm

LennyeTran wrote:
danyet wrote: I think that it is only natural for immigrants to have a certain amount complaint about America because no where is perfect. I speak with many foriegners privately about this because I am am one. But this is usually limmited to complaints about the differences in social customs. I think that Americans are more guarded about their true feelings. Whereas some people from other places tend to express themselves more openly. I have seen this difference cause confusion many times in the past here in the USA. I think that my Russian friends here in the USA would probably prefer life in Australia over America for this reason.

:? Then why are you here? Why didn't you migrate to Australia?
A very unfortunate series of incidents have placed me in the USA, for the time being at least.

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Postby MissLT » Fri Nov 11, 2005 6:24 pm

danyet wrote: A very unfortunate series of incidents have placed me in the USA, for the time being at least.

You can leave, you know. It's a free country.

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Postby ahmads » Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:08 am

Dixie wrote:
danyet wrote:European countries especially have thrown their doors open to a large influx of Moslem immigrants who have no intention of becoming part of the cultures of the countries to which they immigrate but to recreate their own cultures in those countries.
Western nations have welcomed people who respect neither the cultures nor the rights of the population among whom they have settled.


It's true :!: There are more Muslims every day here, living with us, but they just won't adapt themselves to the new country or culture. You can still see those women hiding their entire bodies from head to toes, even in the hottest months. :?

HHHHH,yes Like me ,I will have a chance after a period to travel to Eu ,so I think North of Eu is very cold to me :lol: :lol: ,I can't adapt there ,so I decided >>I will travel to Country that has:
1- weather is familiar to me ,,
2- I must know person there
3- I like this country!?
so I have 3 choices:
1- Roma
2- Borto
3- Barcelona ...
the weather is good in this country .
in Jordan the lowest temperature is (-3) in winter,
so north of Eu is very cold to me ..

hhh .Q :If I travel to Barcelona ,Will you and your boyfriend meet me?..
and Please don't be fugitive from my question in this time like another times ! and Don't bring your Dog ,I know you love Dogs but I hate them :lol:
Last edited by ahmads on Sat Nov 12, 2005 3:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Goronman » Sat Nov 12, 2005 12:21 pm

When I saw all what you've just said, I wonder where I was :shock: ! I'm stunned !!! When I read your first message danyet I 'd the feeling to hear a far-right activist. Who's this 'Horowitz' ? he's a dangerous man !


Who can agree with that ? That's unbearable to read some stuff like 'The muslim riots is an obvious escalation of the Islamic jihad that seeks to conquer the infidel world for the Muslim faith' or 'the Intifada in France'. :o

First of all because : all what is happening here in France is beeing twisted all around the world. We laugh bitterly when foreign countries talk about 'intafada' or 'djihad' and also when American channel Fox don't know how to place the main towns of France on a map (eg. Toulouse -1 M inhabitants is, as for the Fox, in the north east whereas actually it's in the south east ! even Paris was not correctly placed) The truth is that YOU DON'T KNOW ALL HAD HAPPENED AND ARE UNAWARE OF EACH DETAILS OF THIS CRISIS :!: :!: :!: Let me explain briefly :

Our Interior minister, Nicolas Sarkozy, who's very ambitious and who's a campaigner for the next presidential elections in 2007, has put the stress on the repression for his policy. He's a very provocative man, a rabble rouser who tries to woo voters.

All started when two young boys died in Clichy sous Bois, in Paris suburbs, whereas they tried to flee a check identity. Police chase a group of youth, whom they suspect of thief, and let them enter in a power station -without warning them- where two of them died. After this issue, our dear Nicolas Sarkozy refused to admit this police blunder and said that he wanted to 'get rid off the riffraff'. These kind of statements are simply unbearable. In fact, a inquiry showed that the two poor youngs were innocent. :cry: People in the suburbs take that Sarkozy statements like a provocation. But there are much more events that had added and which had caused riots.

In a word, I'm sorry to say that It's a franco-french problem and has nothing to deal with 'Al qaida' or 'djihad' !!! Nowadays, they (>people in suburbs) are fed up with what they have to live every day -and I can understand that. That's because of people like Horowitz that they're revolting : people who did very dangerous confusions between muslims and terrorists. Most of muslims here are pacifists ; they try to live a correct live in France. When Danyet, Lenny tran or Dixie (I was surprised that a girl as smart as you said that :roll: ...) asserts that 'Muslims every day here, living with us, but they just won't adapt themselves to the new country or culture', it's just fully wrong in France !!! the generation of immigrants who had come just after WWII had achieved to integrate well in French society. The problem comes presently from the generation of 15-25 years people who are -that's right- somehow drop out. When Lenny Tran said : 'They don't give colored people or non-French people have the opportunities in their country', he (she ?) is definitely right and that's a dramatic situation :oops: (but I smile when I think of the victims of Katrina : weren't they in majority colored people... ? ) So it's not a french problem but an international fight against prejudices. This problem has just opened up our eyes and, as far as I'm concerned, I've changed my view on suburbs.

Please, try to be more critical, because actually, you haven't got the faintest idea of the french political/sociological mechanisms of this crisis... :?

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Postby ahmads » Sat Nov 12, 2005 2:43 pm

Goronman wrote:When I saw all what you've just said, I wonder where I was :shock: ! I'm stunned !!! When I read your first message danyet I 'd the feeling to hear a far-right activist. Who's this 'Horowitz' ? he's a dangerous man !


Who can agree with that ? That's unbearable to read some stuff like 'The muslim riots is an obvious escalation of the Islamic jihad that seeks to conquer the infidel world for the Muslim faith' or 'the Intifada in France'. :o

First of all because : all what is happening here in France is beeing twisted all around the world. We laugh bitterly when foreign countries talk about 'intafada' or 'djihad' and also when American channel Fox don't know how to place the main towns of France on a map (eg. Toulouse -1 M inhabitants is, as for the Fox, in the north east whereas actually it's in the south east ! even Paris was not correctly placed) The truth is that YOU DON'T KNOW ALL HAD HAPPENED AND ARE UNAWARE OF EACH DETAILS OF THIS CRISIS :!: :!: :!: Let me explain briefly :

Our Interior minister, Nicolas Sarkozy, who's very ambitious and who's a campaigner for the next presidential elections in 2007, has put the stress on the repression for his policy. He's a very provocative man, a rabble rouser who tries to woo voters.

All started when two young boys died in Clichy sous Bois, in Paris suburbs, whereas they tried to flee a check identity. Police chase a group of youth, whom they suspect of thief, and let them enter in a power station -without warning them- where two of them died. After this issue, our dear Nicolas Sarkozy refused to admit this police blunder and said that he wanted to 'get rid off the riffraff'. These kind of statements are simply unbearable. In fact, a inquiry showed that the two poor youngs were innocent. :cry: People in the suburbs take that Sarkozy statements like a provocation. But there are much more events that had added and which had caused riots.

In a word, I'm sorry to say that It's a franco-french problem and has nothing to deal with 'Al qaida' or 'djihad' !!! Nowadays, they (>people in suburbs) are fed up with what they have to live every day -and I can understand that. That's because of people like Horowitz that they're revolting : people who did very dangerous confusions between muslims and terrorists. Most of muslims here are pacifists ; they try to live a correct live in France. When Danyet, Lenny tran or Dixie (I was surprised that a girl as smart as you said that :roll: ...) asserts that 'Muslims every day here, living with us, but they just won't adapt themselves to the new country or culture', it's just fully wrong in France !!! the generation of immigrants who had come just after WWII had achieved to integrate well in French society. The problem comes presently from the generation of 15-25 years people who are -that's right- somehow drop out. When Lenny Tran said : 'They don't give colored people or non-French people have the opportunities in their country', he (she ?) is definitely right and that's a dramatic situation :oops: (but I smile when I think of the victims of Katrina : weren't they in majority colored people... ? ) So it's not a french problem but an international fight against prejudices. This problem has just opened up our eyes and, as far as I'm concerned, I've changed my view on suburbs.

Please, try to be more critical, because actually, you haven't got the faintest idea of the french political/sociological mechanisms of this crisis... :?

yes,,, :P

I hope the situation in France
will come be better than Now ,
and riot will finish as soon as possible.

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Postby Danyet » Sat Nov 12, 2005 5:38 pm

Goronman, It sounds to me that you are simply just another French "leftie", with no clue as to how the world works. You give the "white washed " version of the story because it fits into your radical Left ideology. You think that we don't know what is going on in France? We do not have to live in Paris to understand human nature. Poor people do not take to the streets rioting and burning. This is cultural and racial and we are all well aware that the nature of their religion dictates that they remain "unpoluted" by the West.

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Postby MissLT » Sat Nov 12, 2005 5:41 pm

Goronman wrote: That's because of people like Horowitz that they're revolting : people who did very dangerous confusions between muslims and terrorists. Most of muslims here are pacifists ; they try to live a correct live in France. When Danyet, Lenny tran or Dixie (I was surprised that a girl as smart as you said that :roll: ...) asserts that 'Muslims every day here, living with us, but they just won't adapt themselves to the new country or culture', it's just fully wrong in France !!! the generation of immigrants who had come just after WWII had achieved to integrate well in French society. The problem comes presently from the generation of 15-25 years people who are -that's right- somehow drop out. When Lenny Tran said : 'They don't give colored people or non-French people have the opportunities in their country', he (she ?) is definitely right and that's a dramatic situation :oops: (but I smile when I think of the victims of Katrina : weren't they in majority colored people... ? ) So it's not a french problem but an international fight against prejudices. This problem has just opened up our eyes and, as far as I'm concerned, I've changed my view on suburbs.

Please, try to be more critical, because actually, you haven't got the faintest idea of the french political/sociological mechanisms of this crisis... :?

Well, it's the same in the U.S. Muslims people who come here for a better life don't start anything to harm the society; however, the Muslim people who harm the society are not the legal residents. On the other hand, most of them, legally living here or not, still biiiiiiiiiitch at the government. And my posts were about they don't have any appreciation for the new land they're living in, even when they're assigned for a job that could get them a comfortable life and such.
Additionally, the differences between France and the U.S to me is that the majority of jobs in French are not given out for non-citizens of French. My boyfriend's friend came to live in France, and although she's half French half Vietnamese, she still couldn't get a decent job that she deserves to have since she has American citizenship. Thus, this is not an international problem even if you compared it to the Katrina victims. Yes, they are poor and stuff; however, does it tell you that they couldn't get a decent job here? Some of them are poor because they come to the U.S without a single word of English or don't have a degree that is required for the job they wanted to. If they were qualified, they could have the job they were applying for. For instance, I've seen non-native-born Americans being managers, superintendant, policemen, etc. around where I live. And even people with working permit. Some of my aunt's previous employees were from Vietnam, and they could get a legal right to stay here with their working permit that their companies helped them to get. I have to say this is not really a kind action of Americans because this is a two-way act to benifit both sides: the Americans could get cheaper employees, but with the same amount qualification; the non-resident employees could get to stay here to work with the price that they couldn't get in their own countries, even they were paid less than the price they were supposed to get if they were Americans.
To me, France is not like that. It seems that you guys are afraid of foreigners who take all your jobs from the legal residents; therefore, the jobs have to be given out for citizens of French first. You guys have no problem with people coming to your country to live, but those people cannot get the jobs they deserve to have because they're not residents. This, to me, is the core of the situation. Young people or not they still need to get decent jobs to live their own lives, right???

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Postby MissLT » Sat Nov 12, 2005 5:47 pm

Goronman wrote: they try to live a correct live in France. When Danyet, Lenny tran or Dixie (I was surprised that a girl as smart as you said that :roll: ...)

I never rant about myself being smart..... :? Where did you get that?

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Postby louvicine » Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:27 pm

I think people who participate in this topic must to be proud of themselves. Goronman give us the point of view of a french citizen (him) and it is what we need.
Frequently, about different problems arrounf the world, mass media say a version, but we never know what happen with the citizns, because the TV choose even the interviews of regular people with a politic objetive. I mean that every mass media has its politic interest, the information is not really objetive. for that i apreciate the replie of ur friend at Normandy.
A friend of mine who live at Paris said me that the events were not of the size that Tv showed.
On the other hand I want to ask: why if the problem is not about a Jidah or the internation politic, but also about interior politic, the problem is now present in another countries?
Louvicine D´amour

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Postby louvicine » Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:29 pm

Lenin T wrote:]I never rant about myself being smart..... Where did you get that?


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I think he/she refer to another person :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Louvicine D´amour

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Postby Goronman » Sun Nov 13, 2005 1:39 am

First Lennye Tran, I talked about Dixie because I used to reading several mails from her but I've too admit that i didn't know you before :oops: I'm convinced that you're very smart too !!
And I've to say that I globally agree with what you say, especially with discrimination, and unemployment for foreigners in our country. I hope, and I prufundly believe,that things will improve.

I'm happy to see that Louvicine has understood what I wanted to do :P : just bring an objective testimonial from France. As for me, information are amplified by media all over the world and so this is a good way for foreigners to be also heard. That's why, i presume, protests are expanding...

Danyet, I don't know if I'm a 'leftie' - neither if I'm radical - nobody has ever said that to me... I try to be as objective and neutral as I can because racism and prejudices have always led to disasters. Unfortunately, history shows that I think. I'm stunned by the manner you talk about muslims and their religion which is as repectable as any other. It preaches -and any muslim will be able to confirm - as far as one knows peace, faith etc... There are people like us with prejudices against us, not the same apparently :?

I can understand you believe I'm not enough pragmatic but I prefer that to a narrow-minded spirit... :roll:
me.

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Postby Danyet » Sun Nov 13, 2005 2:53 am

Goronman wrote:
Danyet, I don't know if I'm a 'leftie' - neither if I'm radical - nobody has ever said that to me...

It is interesting to note that most lefties don't realize that they are left thinking, preferring to believe that they are moderates. That has been my observation anyway. The radical left actually believe that the Media is right wing.


Goronman wrote: I'm stunned by the manner you talk about muslims and their religion which is as repectable as any other. It preaches -and any muslim will be able to confirm - as far as one knows peace, faith etc..

You should be stunned at what i say about Islam, for what i say about Islam, I back with historical facts. As far as "respectable as any other" I will let this rest until another time in another thread.

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Postby MissLT » Sun Nov 13, 2005 5:38 am

Goronman wrote:First Lennye Tran, I talked about Dixie because I used to reading several mails from her but I've too admit that i didn't know you before :oops: I'm convinced that you're very smart too !!

Thank you, but is it necessary to put personal opinions about other members in a discussion about news? :? I mean, her view is different; however, is it a need to put a little personal criticism about what she said in parentheses?


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