Battle for Taiwan

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SleepyTear
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Postby SleepyTear » Tue Jan 10, 2006 7:26 am

Maybe I am not qualified enough to comment on this issue here. But I am Chinese, a high school student of China. I have read all the posts above. Personally, I do agree with some of the "Foreigners" coz I think they are learned<maybe...>, they know so many things!! :roll: For me, I even don't know exactly where New York is... :oops:

I think Tanwanese are Chinese. This is FACT. And Taiwan is part of China. Also FACT. You can't deny the history,which all high school students of China know well.The Taiwan issue's caused ultimately by the difference of political ground of two categories of Chinese. Why you "Foreigners" want to interfere is just a question of interest,right? It's undeniable.

As to the possiblity of a war, maybe there will be one.
It's normal, there are so many wars within China and Her people. Tanwan will definitely lose. What you " Foreigners" do is just useless, except arousing 1.3 billion people's hatred against you... :oops:

I am not an adult yet...so forgive my rudeness...

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Postby Danyet » Tue Jan 10, 2006 2:21 pm

No one is denying that Taiwan was not originally part of China but for 50 years Taiwan has been free of Chinas opressive government. The question is: Why, after 50 years of freedom in Taiwan, should the world stand idle and let the corrupt government of China, one of the worlds leading violators of Human Rights, sieze control of Taiwan against their will??????????????

Only the most fanatical Chinese citizen can not see that his goverment has brainwashed him into a "war mentallity". You Chinese who speak of War over Taiwan had better be very, very careful because after your war is finished you are going to be very, very sorry people. You will have nothing!! .........But those "Leaders" who lead you into war will be relatively unscathed!

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Postby ANDYTAN » Tue Jan 10, 2006 7:31 pm

violet wrote:
danyet wrote:I'll tell you what mikexiao, if the rest of the world cut your country off economically you would soon be begging to go to Taiwan.


Ohhhhh danyet! I have been deeply moved by your justice :cry: , until I saw this sentence :shock: . Why do you want other countries to cut China off? :evil: Don't you know that more than 1.3 billion people are living in China and in that case many of us (maybe I am included) would die in starving :cry: :cry: :cry: ? I don't think I could go to Taiwan, Because unlike the way Chinese mainland treats Taiwan, Taiwan couldn't allow us to go there freely, I'm sure of it. :roll:


Let's think about some questions before we draw a conclusion whether Taiwan should get its independence, okay? (Actually I hhave no idea which choice is better for Chinese and Chinese future, this is a too big matter, isn't it?)

1) Why don't other countries cut off China economically now that Communism is hated by so many people in the world?
2) Suppose Taiwan is not as rich as it now be, if Chinese mainland gives all the encouraging policy of working and investment to Taiwanese, as we now do, will they still want to be seperated from mainland?
3) Suppose Chinese mainland is a Capitalism and Taiwan is a Communism, if Taiwan government and people want to be independent, what will be other countries' reaction? Will Americans support Taiwan? Will Mainland admit it?
3) If Taiwan gets its independence without any resistance from mainland, later, another governer of a Chinese city (for example Shanghai) tables a proposal of this city's independence, or maybe half of the citizens in this city agree with the proposal, and of course the city can get support from US and Japan...If this really happen, is there any reason to object its separating from China?
4) If any district in China can freely separate, what will happen?
5) Can any district in US freely separate from the United States?
6) Can any district in any sovereign state in the world freely separate from its country?
...
Let me think over and bring up more questions soon. You guys keep on debating, please. :D :P
wow!! hi. violet.. it's ever so wonderful!!! :P i complete agree with you ..I object the taiwan separate from mainland !! in my heart !! i believe that taiwan's in a measure of china forever !!

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Postby ANDYTAN » Tue Jan 10, 2006 8:05 pm

[quote="danyet"]No one is denying that Taiwan was not originally part of China but for 50 years Taiwan has been free of Chinas opressive government. The question is: Why, after 50 years of freedom in Taiwan, should the world stand idle and let the corrupt government of China, one of the worlds leading violators of Human Rights, sieze control of Taiwan against their will??????????????

Only the most fanatical Chinese citizen can not see that his goverment has brainwashed him into a "war mentallity". You Chinese who speak of War over Taiwan had better be very, very careful because after your war is finished you are going to be very, very sorry people. You will have nothing!! .........But those "Leaders" who lead you into war will be relatively unscathed![/quote  NO! I DON'T agree with you .. who say Taiwan was not originally part of China but for 50 years !! :x who say china haven't Human Rights!! it's just you personly idea!! you..usa always have condemnation our china from everything!! even we right to do and you never to identify with us. I don't know if you ( usa ) have big problem with me and leading to bewilderment us in anything!! ( such as taiwan problem and china join in the WTO before and so on ) , I BElieve that the taiwan already liberated by mainland now if didn't you (usa) make gestures with taiwan.. as matter of fact . you should responsibility for our china's unification......

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Postby Danyet » Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:02 am


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Postby SleepyTear » Wed Jan 11, 2006 10:10 am

danyet wrote:You must live in a cave! It is not just me who knows of China's appauling human rights violations. Read these, there are hundreds more, similar.


I'm sorry. The websites you listed can't be opened. I don't know why. Can you copy some of the content for me? I wanna read them very much.

Not a government is perfect I think,or every government is corrupt.Don't you think so?

Maybe it has been a tradition formed in every Chinese citizen regarding Taiwan Problem that motherland's UNIFICATION is a big cause. Maybe it has been a kind of belief of us Chinese,especially Mainland People, dating from long long ago...

By the way, I dislike we Chinese speak here like madmen. Though patriotism is involved, you should say with reasons. Your words should be convincing? You understand?

Hope you all understand me :oops: My English is poor.

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Postby RL » Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:15 am

it's so tired .
i've read these postes all above.
fifty fifty.
i don't want to comment such a topic.
it's very harmful, isn't it ?
let's stop it .discuss some other things.
ok ?

and i suggest ADMIN to this post.

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Danyet
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Postby Danyet » Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:27 pm

SleepyTear wrote:
I'm sorry. The websites you listed can't be opened. I don't know why. Can you copy some of the content for me? I wanna read them very much.



I don't know why you can't open these website links. They open perfectly for me. I can tell you that China's government has blocked certain websites from her citizens in parts of China. Perhaps this is the case here.

Is anyone else having trouble opening those site???
Last edited by Danyet on Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Danyet » Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:38 pm

OK!!! Here is the copy of the first link that I posted. It is a shame that you can't open it because it is also written in Chinese aswell as English.



http://www.hrichina.org/public/contents ... 5fid=26504

Press Advisory: Further Crackdown on Petitioner Mao Hengfeng and Others in Beijing and Shanghai

January 03, 2006
Human Rights in China (HRIC) has learned that a number of Shanghai petitioners have been detained in Beijing and Shanghai, with several being beaten and mistreated.

According to HRIC sources, on the afternoon of December 28, veteran petitioner Mao Hengfeng and several dozen other petitioners were detained in Beijing by police when they went to view the ceremonial lowering of the flag in Tiananmen Square. Mao and her two daughters, along with fellow petitioners Zhang Cuizhi and Zhang Xueying, were forcibly taken to Beijing's Tianhai Reception Center that evening, while the other petitioners were immediately put onto the next train back for Shanghai. Among the latter group, Sun Xicheng, He Guoguang and others were reportedly beaten by Shanghai “retriever” officials in charge of intercepting petitioners (jiefang renyuan). Sun suffered a concussion as a result of his beating.

According to information received by HRIC, Mao was reportedly dragged by her feet down a flight of stairs by three special police agents. She and her daughters, along with Zhang Cuizhi and Zhang Xueying, were forced to return to Shanghai by train on the evening of December 29. Attempts were made to contact Mao through her cellular phone, but communication was interrupted by a person identified as one of these “retriever” officials from Shanghai's Yangpu District.

Following her arrival in Shanghai on December 30, Mao immediately returned to Beijing with her daughters, but early on the morning of January 1 she was detained once again and forcibly returned to Shanghai, where she and her daughters were taken directly to the Yangpu District dispatch station. Mao's daughters were released that afternoon, but Mao remains under the illegal custody of the Daqiao neighborhood municipal office. When her husband telephoned the neighborhood office, an official surnamed Jiang reportedly told him that Mao would not be returning home for three or four more days.

In addition, sources told HRIC that on December 15, petitioners Zhou Xiudi, Chen Zonglai, Wu Yuping, Jin Huijun and others have been placed under criminal detention on charges of "disturbing public order" by Shanghai Hongkou public security authorities for their participation in a petition to the Shanghai municipal committee conference. On December 22, Shanghai petitioner Ma Yalian was also detained by local police and neighborhood committee members and held until December 28 without her family being allowed information of her whereabouts.


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Postby Danyet » Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:47 pm

Here is the copy from the second link. It is a letter from the Director of the Asia Division of Human rights Watch addressed to president Bush asking for help concerning issues in China.
http://hrw.org/english/docs/2005/11/16/china12043.htm



November 16, 2005

The Honorable George W. Bush
The White House
1600 Pennsylvania Ave., N.W.
Washington, DC 20500

Re: Your Trip to China November 19-20,2005

Dear Mr. President:

We write to urge that during your visit to China on November 19-20, 2005, you take up China’s dismal human rights record in all your meetings and public appearances. We appreciate the statements you made today in Tokyo about the need for China to allow more political freedoms and to increase political openness and the pace of reform. It is important that you place these issues at the top of the agenda during your meetings with President Hu Jintao and Premier Wen Jiabao.

We appreciate the attention your administration has given to human rights issues such as religious freedom and the release of political prisoners in China. However, we are concerned that the human rights situation has fallen on the list of priorities in the U.S.-China bilateral relationship in recent years. We hope that your statements in Tokyo reflect a considered decision to refocus the relationship with China on human rights and pluralism.

The human rights situation in China continues to be dire and, in many respects, has worsened in recent months, with crackdowns on dissidents, human rights activists, lawyers, and journalists. While there had been high expectations for the administration of President Hu Jintao and Prime Minister Wen Jiabao, most Chinese have been disappointed with his lack of action on human rights. We urge you to ask President Hu and Prime Minister Wen what their specific commitments to human rights are and how and when they will be implemented.

Across China today, human rights abuses are fuelling rising social unrest. Indeed, China’s stability in the 21st century, and the role it plays in the international community, will depend in great measure on the extent to which it gives its people lawful, peaceful democratic outlets to express their opinions, pursue their aims, and create public accountability. Without the rule of law based on recognized human rights principles, even China’s economic progress will ultimately be fragile.

You have made democratization one of the foreign policy priorities of your presidency. While there have been some developments in village elections––punctuated by attacks on activists who threaten local communist party power bases (for example, when activist Lu Banglie was beaten in front of an international journalist on October 8)––there is no sign that the Chinese leadership is even considering national elections. While we do not suggest that elections can be organized overnight, there is no reason that China cannot begin planning for national elections. This is a subject that is almost never brought up by international leaders in face-to-face talks with the Chinese leadership. Yet no serious explanation has even been offered why China should be a singular exception to this most basic of principles.

The right to take part in the conduct of public affairs is widely recognized in international law, including the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, the International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination, and the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women. All these instruments make it clear that citizens have the right to vote and to be elected by universal and equal suffrage. As you said in your speech in Japan, this is not a western idea, it is universal, as demonstrated in the many democracies of Asia. We see no reason why more than one billion Chinese citizens should not have the elemental right to choose their leaders. This trip would be a good time to end the international silence on this subject.

This is a particularly important time to raise this subject, as last month the Chinese government issued a white paper, Building of Political Democracy in China, that makes it clear that China will remain a one-party state.

We also urge you to address China’s longstanding habit of releasing one or more political prisoners before or after important meetings. Although the release of a prisoner, especially one who should never have been imprisoned, is a welcome event, we urge that you recognize the gesture for what it is: a public relations stunt that does nothing to address China's continued willingness to imprison dissenters. Should a release or releases occur, we hope you will recognize the “revolving door” quality of China’s prisoner releases––for every prisoner released as a gift to a visiting dignitary, one or more others are then arrested––and insist that no new arrests be carried out to fill the emptied prison bed. We urge that you make this point publicly.

There are many other serious human rights issues that we also urge you to raise on your trip. Please see our letter of August 29, 2005, raising these concerns. We attach the letter here as an appendix.

Thank you for your consideration of these concerns.

Yours sincerely,

Brad Adams
Executive Director
Asia Division


August 29, 2005

The Honorable George W. Bush
The White House
1600 Pennsylvania Ave. NW
Washington, DC 20500

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Postby Danyet » Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:01 pm

http://www.tibet.ca/panchenlama/






Who is the Panchen Lama?
Birthday: April 25, 1989
Age: 16
Born: Lhari, Tibet
Address: Unknown

The Panchen Lama was 6 years old when he and his parents were kidnapped from their home in Tibet by the Chinese government. He is the world's youngest political prisoner and he has been missing for over 6 years.

Panchen Lama is a religious title like Vice-President or Prime Minister that Tibetans give to the second greatest leader of Tibet. Panchen means "Great Scholar" and Lama is a word Tibetans use for a religious teacher. We believe that the Panchen Lama is the protector of all the world's living beings.

This all means that the boy in this picture will grow up to be a very powerful leader of Tibet and perhaps the world.

Why did the Chinese Government Kidnap The Panchen Lama and his Parents?
Tibet used to be its own country but China invaded it in 1949. After the Chinese took over, Tibetans in Tibet were no longer free or happy. China kidnapped the Panchen Lama, his parents and brother from their home in Tibet and are holding them under house arrest somewhere in China. We are still not sure where they are and hopefully through this web page we can spread the word about this boy and help him and his family.

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Postby ANDYTAN » Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:08 pm

danyet wrote:
SleepyTear wrote:
I'm sorry. The websites you listed can't be opened. I don't know why. Can you copy some of the content for me? I wanna read them very much.



I don't know why you can't open these website links. They open perfectly for me. I can tell you that China's givernment has blocked certain websites from her citizens in parts of China. Perhaps this is the case here.

Is anyone else having trouble opening those site???
hi. danyet
you sent these website links indeed can't open in china... i try it so many time and fault of finally..i don't know whether the china's government would like to hide it .. but you can think about when have some bady news which influenced our country's visualize . in there I want to ask you what to do?? you would select close the website or let it which open to anyone see that .. i believe even in usa which it also impossible to appear ..right?? of course .. . due to I worked in foreign's company ..so I can see it which you sent out these website about the human's right..

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Postby justinlan » Thu Jan 12, 2006 8:37 am

Unknownsu wrote:Read the question correctly, guys. I did not ask who will win if there is an outbreak of war, I asked do you think war between these two nations will happen and what reasons do you have for believing so.


:shock: Well,the peace of world is the most important thing in our life all the time.However,dominion and economic benefit are very important to mainland China.So it never give up reoccupying Taiwan.If taiwan continues the independent policy,i am afraid that Mainland China will fire it when Mainland China becomes strong enough and thinks the opportunity is mature.That will be a tragedy to all chinese :( . Hoping this issue will become easier to solve.It of course should be solved by a peaceful way. :idea:

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Postby Danyet » Thu Jan 12, 2006 3:09 pm

It appears that the Chinese Government is resticting the people of China access to information. So many people in Chine do not really know the true facts. We must somehow not allow this situation over Taiwan lead us to war but at the same time we must protect Taiwan from falling under the control of Chinese Government.

It will fall to us too help enlighten the average person in China or the consequences will be on us!

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Postby benluo » Mon Jan 16, 2006 4:49 am

mikexiao wrote:There are so many mistakes you make.
China mainland and Taiwan island is only separated by a narrow taiwan strait.Just like north Ireland and England.People's Repulic of China or Repulic of China are both China.It's very clear.Why you guys don't understand that this is only a historical problem.Just like Hongkong and Macao.

Democratic Progressive Party of Taiwan wants Taiwan to be independence doesn't mean all the Taiwan people want that.Maybe most of them want unify.But I know now is not a proper time but eventually.

China is a ruffian?Why you guys only think from the view of Taiwan instead of people in mainland.I know most of us support our government to avoid the independence.The 1.3billion people are not idiot.They know what is right what is false.Why you never listen to them?Doesn't that mean you are not impersonal?


Support! But i thing everyone has the right to describe the idae about the Taiwan and Mainland Chinda issue. if the payment for peace is war, then we will fight for it.

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Postby justinlan » Thu Jan 19, 2006 11:46 am

danyet wrote:It appears that the Chinese Government is resticting the people of China access to information. So many people in Chine do not really know the true facts. We must somehow not allow this situation over Taiwan lead us to war but at the same time we must protect Taiwan from falling under the control of Chinese Government.

It will fall to us too help enlighten the average person in China or the consequences will be on us!


:arrow: Hi,I guess you just consider some issues just on your own side.you said,"to help enlighten the average person in China",so funny :roll: ,don't treat others as idiots.Today ,as the development of Internet,people in China know so many thing,don't guess chinese as aboriginals,please.you guys form U.S.A think china as an evil county,but ,don't forget that people from other countries think U.S.A as an arbitrary country since it always start wars here and there arbitrarily if there are benefits for it to pursue . :evil:
of course,there are many insufficiencies in China today,but not so terrible as you guys thought.Most people in China would like to work hard for the reunification of China ,and oppose foregin
interference. What's more ,people in China are not idiots, they have they own views,don't impose your idea on others.That is unfair. :roll:

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Postby justinlan » Thu Jan 19, 2006 12:20 pm

what i want to iterate is that Taiwan is one part of China,there is only one China in the globe.Casting back history,you can find the answer of why people in China want to unify their country.Just to imagine,if your country are separated by some factors.what would you feel and what will you do.

Of course ,like most of people in China,I strongly support the reunification of China ,however, I oppose we solve the issue by a form of war.People Not matter from Mainland or Taiwan are relatives.Those arbitrary countries shouldn't interfere with others own issue.If the battle between Mainland and Taiwan breaks out,one of the contributed factors attributes to the interference of those so-called democratic countries.Just have a think ,the countries always interfere with issues of others but call themselves democratic.which point reflects democracy?To me,the so-called democracy is only for themselves.They always consider issues for others by their own way .But don't forget,others maybe don't like this "kindness" :)

Well, I just want to express my thinking and my feel as a normal chinese.I appologize if you think the opinions above make you uncomfortable. :wink: I don't mean it,just to discuss the debate.:wink:
Last edited by justinlan on Fri Jan 20, 2006 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Danyet » Thu Jan 19, 2006 3:03 pm

Well let us just hope that most people in China are like you and don't want to "reunify" China by force. Because then it will be certain that Taiwan will stay as they are FREE. No one would volutarily join China!!!! :roll: :roll:

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Postby jasminefu623 » Fri Jan 20, 2006 6:25 am

For me, as a Chinese, I think Taiwan is a part of China, I don’t think Taiwan is can call as a country. If you look into the history, you will find that, Taiwan is a part of China since a long time ago, so why it should be separate from China? There are conflict between Taiwan a China is just because of the conflict between political groups. It’s the conflict between the National Party and the Communist Party, and I think this is the problem of the last generation it shouldn’t left to us. I don’t think there will be war between Taiwan and China, because the leaders of China are very mature, they know that war is not good to China’s economic and the life of people. Also I think that China is very friendly to Taiwan now, the only problem left is that the attitude of the leader of Taiwan. So if the attitude of the Taiwan president change, I think the situation will change, and the relationship between China and Taiwan will no longer tense, and Taiwan become a part of China will come true in the near future. That’s also what I hope, and the hope of a lot of Chinese and the people in Taiwan.

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Postby Danyet » Fri Jan 20, 2006 8:31 am

jasminefu623 wrote: the only problem left is that the attitude of the leader of Taiwan. So if the attitude of the Taiwan president change, I think the situation will change, and the relationship between China and Taiwan will no longer tense, and Taiwan become a part of China
Oh? So if the attitude of the Taiwan leader changes everything will be OK? You mean if the Taiwan leader does as he is ordered, don't you? Yeah right! Then everything will be OK........sure!! The whole world should do as the Chinese leader says then we will alll live in peace.

That sounds like the typical bullies threat!!!

"OK guys, listen up! Everybody do as I say and nobody gets hurt, see!""

"You killed my brother, you dirty rat. I'm gonna get ya, see!" :roll:

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Postby funnyboy » Sat Jan 21, 2006 2:00 am

Unknownsu wrote:Read the question correctly, guys. I did not ask who will win if there is an outbreak of war, I asked do you think war between these two nations will happen and what reasons do you have for believing so.



Could any one explain what is nation , what 's the difference between country and nation .
I think u can bulid a country ,but can not bulid a nation.
FOR many years ,may be thousand years ,maybe a nation was born.

The Mainland and Taiwan have the same ancestor---HAN.

About more than 95% people living in China main land and Iland Tanwan are HAN .

If you want to know Taiwan ,you must know his history first.


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