Pope Benedict in Germany

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MissLT
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Postby MissLT » Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:12 am

Yeah, too many people get caught up with it. But when something is gone, something else would be created and bring us problems. It's like now we're having a lot more new species because a lot of our old ones are extinct. That's how life is. Isn't that sad?

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andes
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Postby andes » Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:59 am

there so many religions in this world. each of those teach alot of good stuff.. however,it couldn't make this live better.
why? does it means that religions are useless?
does it means that world without religions will be better?
i guess not. the source of the problem is human being itself (as i said in other posting)..
So we couldn't either blame religion or God.
about offends and being offended, i think thats not a big deal if we could practice what we have-or should have-learned from our religion :!:

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Postby Rach » Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:25 am

Perhaps the world would be better without religions, but they are here and obviously mean a big deal to a lot of people. Yeah I agree with you, religions can teach also a lot of could stuff, perhaps it's always the misinterpretations that cause so much trouble.

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Postby Rach » Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:57 am

But I'm still thinking about that bumper sticker anyway, I really like that "no religions, no problems"... hm, but I don't think my boyfriend wants to have that bumper sticker on his new car :roll: Image

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Danyet
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Postby Danyet » Wed Sep 20, 2006 9:35 pm

LennyeTran wrote:
That news is wrong because there is no rule a Pope can't apologize.


Actually it is historically accurate that the Pope or Vatican has considered herself "Infallible". They consider themselves the "last word" and supposedely speak for God on Earth.

Just Google "Infallible Pope" and see what you get.

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MissLT
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Postby MissLT » Thu Sep 21, 2006 12:53 am


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Danyet
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Postby Danyet » Thu Sep 21, 2006 11:27 pm

Yeah that will do!

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MissLT
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Postby MissLT » Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:02 am

Statements by a pope that exercise papal infallibility are referred to as solemn papal definitions or ex cathedra teachings. These should not be confused with teachings that are infallible because of a solemn definition by an ecumenical council, or with teachings that are infallible in virtue of being taught by the ordinary and universal magisterium. For details on these other kinds of infallible teachings, see Infallibility of the Church.

According to the teaching of the First Vatican Council and Catholic tradition, the conditions required for ex cathedra teaching are as follows:

1. "the Roman Pontiff"
2. "speaks ex cathedra" ("that is, when in the discharge of his office as shepherd and teacher of all Christians, and by virtue of his supreme apostolic authority….")
3. "he defines"
4. "that a doctrine concerning faith or morals"
5. "must be held by the whole Church" (Pastor Aeternus, chap. 4.)
For a teaching by a pope or ecumenical council to be recognized as infallible, the teaching must make it clear that it is definitive and binding. There is not any specific phrasing required for this, but it is usually indicated by one or both of the following: (1) a verbal formula indicating that this teaching is definitive (such as "We declare, decree and define..."), or (2) an accompanying anathema stating that anyone who deliberately dissents is outside the Catholic Church.
(copied)

I don't see how Benedict couldn't apologize, according to this rule. He quoted the ancient King's opinion (non-related to Christian texts or Christianity) to make his point.

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Shazzam
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Postby Shazzam » Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:51 am

That was actually really interesting Lenny.

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Postby Tora » Fri Sep 22, 2006 3:36 am

similar article in bbc:
...According to the Roman Catholic Church, the Bishop of Rome IS infallible - but only in specific cases. The current furore over remarks made by the pontiff about Islam does not fall into this category.

Papal infallibility only comes into play with issues of faith that concern the whole Church. It doesn't apply when the Pope is expressing a personal opinion or, in this case, quoting from a historical text...


the whole story

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MissLT
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Postby MissLT » Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:16 am

Yes, that's the second link I posted up there. :wink:

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Tora
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Postby Tora » Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:57 am

LennyeTran wrote:Yes, that's the second link I posted up there. :wink:


LOL I'm very attentive :P :oops: :oops:

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MissLT
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Postby MissLT » Fri Sep 22, 2006 8:05 am

:wink: It's cool. The part you quoted was easier to understand than the part I quoted from wikipedia. I had to re-read it since I was HAH? for the first time :oops: :lol: .

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Postby Tora » Fri Sep 22, 2006 2:55 pm

LennyeTran wrote::wink: It's cool. The part you quoted was easier to understand than the part I quoted from wikipedia. I had to re-read it since I was HAH? for the first time :oops: :lol: .


Anyhow we've found the consensus 8)

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about Pope and christanity

Postby LadyMacbeth » Sat Oct 07, 2006 6:14 pm

Yes, they can. Some Popes have apologized for what other Popes did in the past. There is no such rule that a Pope can't apologize.

He just didn't wanna apologize because what he said wasn't wrong. He didn't make it up by himself; he quoted someone's words. What seems wrong to me is that his motive. He said he wanted peace and build a bridge conntected Christianity and Islam. However, is it right to provoke someone's anger by telling them what they don't wanna hear?

If he quoted those words about them, which means he's already had his own image of them. Also, I don't think he didn't hear of the caricature incident. Just some guys drew some pictures, and the world was kinda upside down. They rampaged the streets and wanted to hang the guys who drew them. Now, those words were repeated from a mouth of the head of Roman Catholic Church. I don't think there is no one who wouldn't wanna kill him. What if those fanatics succeeded? And Catholics would do something back for a revenge. Blah blah blah blah... all the worst scenarios. Thus, the gap of hatred between Christianity and Islam will be even deeper and wider.

I wanna know his real motive behind this speech. I wanna know who helped him with this speech. I wanna know who's really behind this whole thing. Too many things I wanna know just from this nonsensical speech. Rolling Eyes


I think that some people exaggerate. Whatever it means. I mean they have natural tendencies to make little things big or looking for needles inside the hay-heaps. The worse - they find these needles.
I know one man who always says "A devil is hanged on details". And he is right. All in all I think only wider perspective can save this world.

I don't think Christian Pope had bad intention. I think such intention was simply found by people who were looking for it. But it is the hardest thing ever to prove someone his/her bad will/bad intentions.

If you can do it - you can criticise Pope's speech.
If not - better go and take care about your own life - if you have it, of course.


:roll: :roll: :roll:

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German Pope

Postby LadyMacbeth » Sat Oct 07, 2006 6:28 pm

What I would like also say is that life can be very awkward thing when each time you are starting to open your mouth to say things about A, B is interrupting you with his fancied ideas that you have just offended C.

Who is wrong and who is right when in such case it is ME!!! who should be scared of B attacking me physically/devasting my places of culture in case of my lack of any interest in B's crazy ideas???

Thus I think it isn't possible to find peace between Muslims and Christians. The first are simply too aggressive.

I also think Polish Pope was wiser that German. He saw the world/Europe from different perspective.
I think his perspective was different and wiser.
Probably also immpossible to implement but it seems to me that after all bit wiser.

Though who can know it... haha?:)

:roll: :roll: :roll:

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Re: German Pope

Postby MissLT » Wed Oct 11, 2006 2:21 am

LadyMacbeth wrote:What I would like also say is that life can be very awkward thing when each time you are starting to open your mouth to say things about A, B is interrupting you with his fancied ideas that you have just offended C.

Yeah. But the thing is that it wasn't his place to lecture them, though. I mean, it would be no biggie if he was nobody and said it. I know I wouldn't care. Unfortunately, he's the head of the Roman Catholic Church. Majority of Muslims don't like to be lectured by him.

You would think those Muslim religious leaders would take what he said in consideration and, "thank you for your words. We'll see what we can do." blah blah or something like that, you know. Just to be nice so he would get the f*ck off. But they got offended! Well, it's not like it's the first time, so whatever! :roll:


LadyMacbeth wrote:I also think Polish Pope was wiser that German.

I think so, too. At least, he didn't give a da*n about their actions. He was more of don't blow me up, and I won't get in your way attitude. With this outrageous world it was the best solution, methinks. :roll:

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helo,

Postby LadyMacbeth » Wed Oct 11, 2006 5:52 pm

Yeah. But the thing is that it wasn't his place to lecture them, though. I mean, it would be no biggie if he was nobody and said it. I know I wouldn't care. Unfortunately, he's the head of the Roman Catholic Church. Majority of Muslims don't like to be lectured by him.


Hmmm... after publishing my letter above I thought at once: "what for Muslims hear what catholic Pope preaches at all? Do they intend to convert or what?"

That was my first idea. The second was - "but who is Catholic Pope - doth he has double role nowadays - he is both the head of Catholic church and the head of Vatican state.

So I think he should always pinpoint which role he takes at the particular moment cause some serious misunderstandings can appear at once (no doubt).

I don't remember now what he exactedly said but I think he was talking about religion, he was far from giving political opinions so I think the reaction of Muslim world (very complicated notion) was really exagerated (as usually) :( (MY OPINION)

I think so, too.


Well... the stranger is that he was almost shot dead. Don't forget about it. The man who shaped somehow 25 years of history of European and world's christian world could have been dead only in 1981 (instead of 2005).
He didn't tell much then and could be dead.
Can Benedict expect the same threat after his unfortunate speech?
Noone knows it.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

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Re: helo,

Postby MissLT » Wed Oct 11, 2006 8:54 pm

LadyMacbeth wrote:
Well... the stranger is that he was almost shot dead. Don't forget about it. The man who shaped somehow 25 years of history of European and world's christian world could have been dead only in 1981 (instead of 2005).
He didn't tell much then and could be dead.
Can Benedict expect the same threat after his unfortunate speech?
Noone knows it.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Tell me one leader, religious or political, who hasn't been threatened to be killed? How humble or peaceful or whatever one is, there are always people who want to kill them for their position. It's strange, but this is how it is.

Benedict's security system is now even tighter after his speech. His life is now almost up for grab. If they could get a hold of him, oh yes, they'd finish him good. :roll:

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about security

Postby LadyMacbeth » Thu Oct 12, 2006 3:32 pm

Tell me one leader, religious or political, who hasn't been threatened to be killed? How humble or peaceful or whatever one is, there are always people who want to kill them for their position. It's strange, but this is how it is.


Hmmm... that's truth. Some people are jealous, other are professional killers...different reasons.
Ali Agca for example was a professional murderer. Before Polish Pope he never missed (I read somewhere). He targeted at the Pope from the distance of 4-10 metres (they say). And he missed. He was shocked when he got it known that the Pope survived. Ali Agca was from Bulgary (I am not sure).

Benedict's security system is now even tighter after his speech. His life is now almost up for grab. If they could get a hold of him, oh yes, they'd finish him good.


Can you imagine what could happen in Europe/in the world if Turkish professional murderer would shot Benedict XVI?
Sometimes such sparks can start world-wide conflicts. For example historical books teach that murder in Sarajewo was a indirect cause of I World War.


:roll: :roll: :roll:

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Re: about security

Postby MissLT » Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:19 pm

LadyMacbeth wrote:
Hmmm... that's truth. Some people are jealous, other are professional killers...different reasons.
Ali Agca for example was a professional murderer. Before Polish Pope he never missed (I read somewhere). He targeted at the Pope from the distance of 4-10 metres (they say). And he missed. He was shocked when he got it known that the Pope survived. Ali Agca was from Bulgary (I am not sure).

Yeah, it's usually the opposite side that wants to kill them. Like Lincoln, who would wanna kill him? Well, the South did. Like Princess Diana, who would wanna kill her? Well, her husband did. :lol: :lol:


LadyMacbeth wrote:Can you imagine what could happen in Europe/in the world if Turkish professional murderer would shot Benedict XVI?
Sometimes such sparks can start world-wide conflicts. For example historical books teach that murder in Sarajewo was a indirect cause of I World War.


:roll: :roll: :roll:

If he got killed and they found out that the killer was from different religion (name calling, a Muslim), it would definitely holy war between Catholics and Muslims. Getting killed for quoting a source from the ancient king is abysmal and outrageous.

People just never get it that you can't kill other in the name of religion, period!!!!!


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