future of EU

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jeffcox
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Location: England - Brazil

Postby jeffcox » Wed Nov 01, 2006 11:51 pm

LadyMacbeth, I understand that you're scared of Europe. Anybody who loves their country is. In Britain, when the EEC (as it was known back then)was being set up, they promised that it wouldn't lead to loss of sovereignty. They knew, even then, that it would. They lied to the population.

The English court is no longer in control of it's own judgements... everybody goes to the European Court for a higher judgement... making everything longer and more beaurocratic.

It's a two-edged sword that cuts both ways!

If Poland is in such a bad state as you say, then people will take advantage of Poland anyway! So Poland will lose out, if they're in the EU or out of it.

Being in has some advantages. There are initiatives to promote education and health. Many of these initiatives are not made public knowledge so most people are not even aware of them. There is a constant battle to normalize such public systems, whereby most countries would have to dedicate themselves to improving their systems.

Personally, I'm against the European Union! Purely on patriotic grounds... I'd like Britain to remain British. I wouldn't like to have a European flag on my passport and I love the Pound Sterling. But I do recognize that Europe has a lot to offer as a 'community' and not as a 'federal union' as most Euro-ministers would like.

I am pro European Community, though!

LadyMacbeth
Rough Diamond Member
Posts: 1419
Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 6:26 pm

hi again:)

Postby LadyMacbeth » Thu Nov 02, 2006 6:11 pm

Hello:)

The English court is no longer in control of it's own judgements... everybody goes to the European Court for a higher judgement... making everything longer and more beaurocratic.


Here is the same:( People e-mail to EU institutions to complain about lags and neglects of Polish clerks and important institutions.
I think they only worsen all things this way:(
I mean - national government should feel guilty and be ashamed or responsible for many things but they aren't.
So I think in such case any complaints higher don't make too much sense at all:(

Look into Polish history - it doesn't matter who ruled here - left wing /right wing or...both wing political parties some problems have never been solved in the right way:(
And EU will use it against me in future - at least I would do it if I were EU:(
You can say - "you aren't a patriot". I think I am a big patriot. But...somehow it happened that at the age of 25 I stopped going to vote. Because I feel cheated till today. I feel being permamently cheated by my own government about the real state of this country. Is joing EU its biggest success? So what is its biggest failure and how to solve it? Unemployment? Emigration the only solution? It sounds like... Hitler's "the final solution" :(.
So if the only solution for me is leaving MY country to have money to live so in fact I don't live in any country at all and thus - consequently - I can refuse going into any national voting when my capital is in Brussel nowadays and it is the biggest success of my country in this decade at least :-(


If Poland is in such a bad state as you say, then people will take advantage of Poland anyway! So Poland will lose out, if they're in the EU or out of it.

This is a very complicated issue. Really complicated.
I think some gains we have - some roads are repaired, farmers get money - so we can see some help (for the poorest of the poor too).
But what next? We have government nin Warsaw, they need my taxes to have their salaries. One day EU will come to conclusion they do more for this country than the government in Warsaw and what will be then? A war? A war on taxes? There were some wars on taxes in history. Let's look into US. 3 years before starting their independent life Great Britain and the colonies were in the biggest friendship. 3 years after - war on taxes and total splitting for ever:(
:roll: :roll: :roll:

Being in has some advantages. There are initiatives to promote education and health.


:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: - my answer in this place.
Of course joing EU by now has many advantages but how do they promote education and health here?
I would like to know more details.

I'd like Britain to remain British.

I wouldn't care about Britain that could eventually lose its British character. Brits have always been Brits and they will always be. I care much more about Poland. But it seems to me better to care about me myself in this all EU mess cause me myself is the closest object to me to care about.
:roll: :roll: :roll:
Read you soon,
LM

wllsp
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Location: Russia, Saint-Petersburg

Re: hi again:)

Postby wllsp » Fri Nov 03, 2006 7:52 am

LadyMacbeth wrote:Is joing EU its biggest success? So what is its biggest failure and how to solve it? Unemployment? Emigration the only solution? It sounds like...

Well, to me it looks like a big success for your country. Take a look at Turkey. It wants to become a member of EU but EU still is not ready for this. So, anyway, it seems to be good at least for your country. And also it's clear that you have not yet benefited from joining EU.

LadyMacbeth wrote:So if the only solution for me is leaving MY country to have money to live so in fact I don't live in any country at all and thus - consequently - I can refuse going into any national voting when my capital is in Brussel nowadays and it is the biggest success of my country in this decade at least :-(

Look, aren't you overacting to this situation? Of course it's great if one finds a job at home. However it's OK at least to have an opportunity to work in other European countres. Here in Russia there was a huge recession back in 90's and lots of people looked for work in other countries.

LadyMacbeth
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Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 6:26 pm

illusion of success

Postby LadyMacbeth » Sat Nov 04, 2006 7:20 am

Hello:)

Well, to me it looks like a big success for your country. Take a look at Turkey. It wants to become a member of EU but EU still is not ready for this. So, anyway, it seems to be good at least for your country. And also it's clear that you have not yet benefited from joining EU.


Well... somehow it seem to me that things are more about illusion of success than about any real success.
I think Poland is a kind of easter barrier/safety bufor for EU community that is scared of powerful Russia that isn't definitely interested in any EU at all.
You know - taking us they can catch some gangs of international (Polish-Russian) car thieves and try to solve some other problems. Some people have interesting, blood-freezing job.

I can notice they care about quality of their food very much and generally they promote health and education but in their own countries.

Turkey is bit further than Poland. Besides they
represent different culture and religion. They like suiciders. I think EU will not be ready for a long time to take them into their God chosen community unless.... and here I would rather pause cause I don't want to be accused for supporting any acts of terrorism :(

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Of course it's great if one finds a job at home. However it's OK at least to have an opportunity to work in other European countres.


Well... when you get a better job for better money than in your own country it can be a real pleasure to leave it one day. But to leave in order to get a job that you could do in your country for better money or (what is the most frequent these days) doing worse job that you could do in your country having your skills for better money that you could earn for doing more sklled job in your country... hmmm.... does it make any sense?
It is wasting productive strenght or how they call it. And stopping civilisational progress I think .

Who is blame for it?

LadyMacbeth
Rough Diamond Member
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Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 6:26 pm

correction of some errors

Postby LadyMacbeth » Sat Nov 04, 2006 7:23 am

seems

wllsp
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Location: Russia, Saint-Petersburg

Re: illusion of success

Postby wllsp » Tue Nov 07, 2006 10:34 am

LadyMacbeth wrote:Well... somehow it seem to me that things are more about illusion of success than about any real success.

According to some statistics there are some results. "... surging exports to the EU contributed to Poland's strong growth in 2004" and "Poland stands to benefit from nearly $23.2 billion in EU funds, available through 2006. "
https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/pl.html
I wonder what you think about these facts?

LadyMacbeth wrote:I think Poland is a kind of easter barrier/safety bufor for EU community that is scared of powerful Russia

I don't see the point in this sort of barrier. We are not in the cold war anymore. What kind of infiltration do you think it protects from :) ?

LadyMacbeth wrote:I think EU will not be ready for a long time to take them into their God chosen community unless....

I agree. There are way to many issues. For example they seized the part of Cyprus which is a EU country.

LadyMacbeth wrote:But to leave in order to get a job that you could do in your country for better money or (what is the most frequent these days) doing worse job that you could do in your country having your skills for better money that you could earn for doing more sklled job in your country... hmmm.... does it make any sense?
Who is blame for it?


Of course, it doesn't make any sense.

But I meant that it would be great to have an opportunity to find a job abroad. As far as I know Poland have had high unemplyment since 1989, long before becoming member of EU. And after joing EU lots of Polish workers managed to find jobs in other EU countries.

I perfectly understand that their first jobs might be not ones they had dreamed of, but they agreed to do them probably because they think it was just the first step in the right direction. Ten years ago I was ready to do the same because we had rather bad economic situation here in Russia. However I had no right to work in EU and as result I had a lot of difficulties in finding a job abroad. So I still think that becoming a member of EU is good to many Polish people.

LadyMacbeth
Rough Diamond Member
Posts: 1419
Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 6:26 pm

Place for Poland

Postby LadyMacbeth » Wed Nov 15, 2006 7:28 pm

Hi Russia:)
I perfectly understand that their first jobs might be not ones they had dreamed of, but they agreed to do them probably because they think it was just the first step in the right direction. Ten years ago I was ready to do the same because we had rather bad economic situation here in Russia. However I had no right to work in EU and as result I had a lot of difficulties in finding a job abroad. So I still think that becoming a member of EU is good to many Polish people.


EU surely could be a very big advantage for Poland but... but... but...and here I will pause because of many reasons:(

I am from Poland but I am a voice of the eagle who sounds like - Where is a place for Polish state in the mess you can read beneath. Why Polish people cannot unite around daily problems and try to fight THEM together instead of fighting against each other.
Unfortunatelly noone has a business to make people here more reasonable. They also don't need to be more on on earth than in the air, I am afraid :(

Bush and Putin
Cheers from Silesia to all EC members- Silesia - far from Warsaw,
LM

wllsp
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Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 7:54 am
Location: Russia, Saint-Petersburg

Re: Place for Poland

Postby wllsp » Fri Nov 17, 2006 7:48 pm

Hi!

LadyMacbeth wrote:Why Polish people cannot unite around daily problems and try to fight THEM together instead of fighting against each other.


It sounds like your country has no national ideas which might unite the nation, doesn't it? Interestingly I can't say here in Russia we have sort of this. But there were lot of them back in the time of the USSR. And I feel that many of them were false. So I feel it's not a bad idea not to care a lot about having or not having things that can unite a nation.

LadyMacbeth
Rough Diamond Member
Posts: 1419
Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 6:26 pm

history rules:)

Postby LadyMacbeth » Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:36 pm

It sounds like your country has no national ideas which might unite the nation, doesn't it? Interestingly I can't say here in Russia we have sort of this. But there were lot of them back in the time of the USSR. And I feel that many of them were false. So I feel it's not a bad idea not to care a lot about having or not having things that can unite a nation.


Hi:)
I like writing with you very much. Your letters are full of interesting observations and suggestions.
Well.. it seems to me that you are really right. In fact. Russia has imperial history, Poland doesn't have any like that. No lately at least.
I mean - our greatness (Polish greatness) finishes at the time of Jagiellonian dynasty. Really.
I noticed that many Polish people suggest their connections with Nethrlands - specially with Sweden.
But to me Sweden is a country who alomost destroyed Poland for good in 1655. I mean if not successful defence of Jasna Gora monastery - Poland would have stopped to exist in 1655. Because of Jasna Gora successful defence against Sweden Poland lost independence about one century later. We stopped to exist as one nation and probably we don't exist as a nation till today. I mean - we are the same way divided that people during times of partition of Polish state.
Russia has never had such problems.
Probably that's element that unites you more. Your imerialistic ambitions.

Well... in case of Poland we have a capitol in bad place. I think that good Polish times finished when a capital was moved from Krakow to Warsaw and these times exist till today.
Many reasons of this fact.
People in Warsaw are too influenced by Moscow from one side and US from the other.
People in Krakow don't think this way. They rather live between Vienna and Australia.
I mean - I am not sure who (of two of them) thinks generally worse but these people differ. They simply differ. Polish Pope was shaped by Crakow. It means a lot of. Crakow has a good memory about Polish greatness. Warsaw is a God damn city. And it will always be:(

OKI. Have you ever been in Poland?
What do you think about my observations?

Write them freely here or there, please.
Regards.
LM

wllsp
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Posts: 124
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 7:54 am
Location: Russia, Saint-Petersburg

Re: history rules:)

Postby wllsp » Wed Nov 22, 2006 8:09 pm

Hi

LadyMacbeth wrote:Russia has never had such problems.
Probably that's element that unites you more. Your imerialistic ambitions.

Yeah, there are this sort of ideas in Russia. I don't share them but there are people who still believe in the huge power of Russia.


LadyMacbeth wrote:OKI. Have you ever been in Poland?
What do you think about my observations?

I have never been to Poland. Your observations are interesting although controversial a little ;). I'm not so sure about importance of the place of the capital nowadays.

LadyMacbeth
Rough Diamond Member
Posts: 1419
Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 6:26 pm

hello:)

Postby LadyMacbeth » Wed Nov 22, 2006 9:22 pm

Hi,


Yeah, there are this sort of ideas in Russia. I don't share them but there are people who still believe in the huge power of Russia.


Well... truly speaking I know very little about Russia and truly speaking I don't need to know anything more.
October Revolution started in Russia, then communism started there. Both awful things to me.

Before you had some very rude and tough tsars. Some of them were great - builders or murderers. I don't remember.

However it would be interesting to me to read a book that would compare Polish and Russian people. I know Russian people don't like Polish at all. They call us damn ass-lickers. I am afraid they are right:(

I have never been to Poland. Your observations are interesting although controversial a little Wink. I'm not so sure about importance of the place of the capital nowadays.


Ups... you seem to spaek like someone who doesn't pay any taxes. I pay ...I swear... :(
So let me to stay at my opinion.

LM


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