"Jane Eyre"

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LadyMacbeth
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"Jane Eyre"

Post by LadyMacbeth » Wed Aug 30, 2006 5:21 pm

Hi again:)

I hope you all are very happy to read me again after a long, long break:)

Well... today I have finished to read READER LEVEL 2 about the story of Jane Eyre.

Have you also read this book?

What do you think about Jane Eyre? Wasn't she dangerously in love at the end of this book?

But did she have any dignity that she wanted to marry a man who was a bigamist in fact and then he became a crippled person.

All in all she was a rich woman and could do whatever she wanted.

Your ideas?
:)

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Dixie
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Post by Dixie » Wed Aug 30, 2006 5:23 pm

I read it in college, about 7 years ago. I think I should read it again and try to find the symbolism by myself though, since I can hardly remember...

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Post by MissLT » Wed Aug 30, 2006 5:24 pm

The book is nice although Jane did seem lost to me.

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hello Dixie and Lennie,

Post by LadyMacbeth » Wed Aug 30, 2006 5:28 pm

Symbolism of Jane Eyre? Well... it sounds higly interesting... . However I think she really could find someone ...more interesting than Mr Rochester who didn't tell her that the kid whom she tutored was his own:( What a pitiful guy!:(
:roll: :roll: :roll:
But of course it is only my humble opinion.

Well girls. Nice to meet you again. Don't cut me too often, please:)

LM

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Post by MissLT » Wed Aug 30, 2006 5:32 pm

There are not many men the author gave for Jane. Maybe she's trying to say it's the same with life. Either you end up with a religious and conservative or a half-assed liar. Pick your choice.

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dear Lennye,

Post by LadyMacbeth » Wed Aug 30, 2006 5:44 pm

Well... it is difficult to say how many boy friends Jane Eyre could have if she didn't fall into love with Mr Rochester.

In my simplified version I read she had a cousin who pulled her hair and thus she left home and started to learn to be a teacher in future. She didn't have parents. Another cousin of her was a clergyman - it wasn't written there if he was better towards her than her first cousin who made her leaving home.

You know - in such books like "Jane Eyre" everything is about money or beauty. She had been simply too poor to be Rocherster's wife before she got a will after her lonely, rich uncle. Then Rochester's bad wife died and they could marry.

But was she wise marrying this Rochester? It was written he was almost blind.
:(

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Re: dear Lennye,

Post by MissLT » Wed Aug 30, 2006 5:47 pm

LadyMacbeth wrote: In my simplified version I read she had a cousin who pulled her hair and thus she left home and started to learn to be a teacher in future. She didn't have parents. Another cousin of her was a clergyman - it wasn't written there if he was better towards her than her first cousin who made her leaving home.
:(
I hate this part, too. This guy is selfish. Submission to God blah blah blah. He wanted her as a wife, so he could have someone to take care of him while he went on his mission serving for God. :roll:

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Post by Dixie » Wed Aug 30, 2006 6:27 pm

I don't remember about the symbolism in the novel, but I do remember about the dichotomies the professor pointed out:

1) Jane / Rochester's wife. Jane was portrayed like an angel, or what was known as "an angel in the house". Mr. Rochester's wife (I forgot her name) is known as Jane's opposite. There's a book about this character called The Madwoman in the Attic (can't remember its author).

2) Jane's name: Eyre. It is pronounced like "air", "heir"... According to my professor, it can have different meanings. I think Jane is the heiress of something in the end, right? I really should read it again...

I don't remember any more dichotomies right now but I promise I will re-read the book and even look for my notes, that's an interesting novel to analyze.

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Post by illusion » Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:44 pm

You know what? It reminds me of this Friends episode when Pheobe and Rachel signed up for literature classes and Rachel didn't read Jane Eyre and she had to tell the story in front the whole group and she said that Jane Eyre was a cyborg and she lived in a robot world? HA HA HA HA LOL how funny is that? :)

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hi:)

Post by LadyMacbeth » Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:48 pm

I hate this part, too. This guy is selfish. Submission to God blah blah blah. He wanted her as a wife, so he could have someone to take care of him while he went on his mission serving for God
No. He didn't want her as his wife. At least it isn't anything about it. But I have read only a simplified version.
But besides I don't think a bad marriage can be better than no marraige at all. I think some people simply prefer doing different things than running from one court into another and fight for money, kids etc. It makes our life more stressful and we can finish it faster because of such a mess:(
I don't remember any more dichotomies right now but I promise I will re-read the book and even look for my notes, that's an interesting novel to analyze.
Wow - this professor of your had really a great imagination. But apart from that... what I like in this reader level 2 is that CDs are included into it and you can improve your pronunciation by intensive reading. Besides there are some nice exercises to each chapter. Really good things.
Only I cannot understand why 2 CDs are included into such a short book. Wouldn't be able to put all stuff into one CD? Just another stupid question of mine :wink:

Read you soon:)
LM

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Re: hi:)

Post by MissLT » Wed Aug 30, 2006 8:34 pm

LadyMacbeth wrote:
No. He didn't want her as his wife. At least it isn't anything about it. But I have read only a simplified version.
But besides I don't think a bad marriage can be better than no marraige at all. I think some people simply prefer doing different things than running from one court into another and fight for money, kids etc. It makes our life more stressful and we can finish it faster because of such a mess:(
From what I remember he wanted to marry her (he didn't love her, just God, in my opinion), so they both could devote their lives to God. She refused it later on, though, for she found herself fallin in love with Rochester.

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Post by Dixie » Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:30 am

illusion wrote:You know what? It reminds me of this Friends episode when Pheobe and Rachel signed up for literature classes and Rachel didn't read Jane Eyre and she had to tell the story in front the whole group and she said that Jane Eyre was a cyborg and she lived in a robot world? HA HA HA HA LOL how funny is that? :)
Hahaha yeah that was fun... :lol: :lol: Last night I stayed up late watching the three last episodes 8)

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Post by illusion » Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:41 am

Dixie wrote:
illusion wrote:You know what? It reminds me of this Friends episode when Pheobe and Rachel signed up for literature classes and Rachel didn't read Jane Eyre and she had to tell the story in front the whole group and she said that Jane Eyre was a cyborg and she lived in a robot world? HA HA HA HA LOL how funny is that? :)
Hahaha yeah that was fun... :lol: :lol: Last night I stayed up late watching the three last episodes 8)
omg me too!!! I love watching Friends before going to bed :D I sleep better after a good laugh HA HA HA :D

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hmm hmm hmmm

Post by LadyMacbeth » Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:48 pm

From what I remember he wanted to marry her (he didn't love her, just God, in my opinion), so they both could devote their lives to God. She refused it later on, though, for she found herself fallin in love with Rochester.
Can you give me a chapter where I can find these words?
I would never ever believe Jane Eyre would have wished to devote her life to God. She would have to be a nun then! But she wasnot a catholic so how could she be?
Maybe she would have wished to be a nurse and help people or a doctor?
Where did you find that she wanted to devote her life to God? Personally I think it is funny idea. She simply had a very difficult life and was focused on earning money on her own instead of dreaming about any illusions - devoting her life to God including.
Whatever it means.

LM

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ps.

Post by LadyMacbeth » Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:52 pm

Lennye, here is "Jane Eyre" on-line.
Give me a chapter, please, where she wants to devote her life to God.
I only had time to read READER level 2 but I hope to be helped by you with details:)
Thanks a lot:)

http://www.literature.org/authors/bront ... jane-eyre/

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Post by MissLT » Thu Aug 31, 2006 6:05 pm

Hold on, let me find it at Project Gutenberg. It might take awhile for me to find that chapter since it's been awhile.

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Re: hmm hmm hmmm

Post by MissLT » Thu Aug 31, 2006 6:07 pm

LadyMacbeth wrote: I would never ever believe Jane Eyre would have wished to devote her life to God. She would have to be a nun then! But she wasnot a catholic so how could she be?
Maybe she would have wished to be a nurse and help people or a doctor?
Where did you find that she wanted to devote her life to God? Personally I think it is funny idea. She simply had a very difficult life and was focused on earning money on her own instead of dreaming about any illusions - devoting her life to God including.
Whatever it means.

LM
She did not wish, but she didn't really try to make choices for her life. I found her to be a submissive girl who was easily to persuaded in some parts.

When I said they both could devote their lives to God, I meant he wanted to marry her, so he could have someone take care of him while serving God. And he was trying to persuade her to serve God. I remember he said something like, what's better than the love of oneself to God. She was confused about her love to Rochester; therefore, she was thinking if going with John was the way to forget the past.

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Post by MissLT » Thu Aug 31, 2006 6:25 pm

This is in chapter XXXIV. I'm not good with Roman numeral. I think it's chapter 34.

This is the start of his intention.

"Jane, what are you doing?"

"Learning German."

"I want you to give up German and learn Hindostanee."

"You are not in earnest?"

"In such earnest that I must have it so: and I will tell you why."

He then went on to explain that Hindostanee was the language he was himself at present studying; that, as he advanced, he was apt to forget the commencement; that it would assist him greatly to have a pupil with whom he might again and again go over the elements, and so fix them thoroughly in his mind; that his choice had hovered for some time between me and his sisters; but that he had fixed on me because he saw I could sit at a task the longest of the three. Would I do him this favour? I should not, perhaps, have to make the sacrifice long, as it wanted now barely three months to his departure.


And this is his first proposal and her first rejection,

I appealed to one who, in the discharge of what he believed his duty, knew neither mercy nor remorse. He continued -

"God and nature intended you for a missionary's wife. It is not personal, but mental endowments they have given you: you are formed for labour, not for love. A missionary's wife you must -- shall be. You shall be mine: I claim you -- not for my pleasure, but for my Sovereign's service."

"I am not fit for it: I have no vocation," I said.


http://www.gutenberg.org/dirs/etext98/janey11h.htm

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Post by MissLT » Thu Aug 31, 2006 6:51 pm

I copied these paragraphs in Chapter 34 in the link you posted above.

"Forgive me the words, St. John; but it is your own fault that I have been roused to speak so unguardedly. You have introduced a topic on which our natures are at variance--a topic we should never discuss: the very name of love is an apple of discord between us. If the reality were required, what should we do? How should we feel? My dear cousin, abandon your scheme of marriage--forget it."

"No," said he; "it is a long-cherished scheme, and the only one which can secure my great end: but I shall urge you no further at present. To-morrow, I leave home for Cambridge: I have many friends there to whom I should wish to say farewell. I shall be absent a fortnight--take that space of time to consider my offer: and do not forget that if you reject it, it is not me you deny, but God. Through my means, He opens to you a noble career; as my wife only can you enter upon it. Refuse to be my wife, and you limit yourself for ever to a track of selfish ease and barren obscurity. Tremble lest in that case you should be numbered with those who have denied the faith, and are worse than infidels!"


How scary his words are! I was wondering if he was a real saint while I was reading this part. That's why it has such an impact on me compared to other parts of this novel.

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hi Lennye

Post by LadyMacbeth » Thu Aug 31, 2006 6:59 pm

Thanks for your contribution. It is highly interesting;) I mean - Jane was a protestant so she couldn't be a nun. She could only be a wife of protestant vicar. Well... some of them were also very pitiful like we read in "Pride and Prejudice" (I think about Mr. Collins).

Now - calm conclusions about Jane's final choice.
Why did she prefer a bigamist more than a pious protestant vicar?
The answer - beacuse she was in blind love.
Another answer - she was still very sensitive cause she was young.
Third possibility - she helped her more than her cousins ( but can it be the truth? I am not so sure:(

Personally I would never ever tried to find a bigamist specially when I have just inherited a large fortune. So summing up - again crippled Mr Rochester was simply richer than healthy poor cousin so being confident in her own money Jane Eyre decided to find Mr Rochester rather than to marry a poor cousin.
AMEN.
Any other ideas?:)
I have one more idea of mine - better to read whole book with details than READER LEVEL 2. The last misses many plots.

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correction of some important langauge errors

Post by LadyMacbeth » Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:02 pm

he (Mr Rochester) helped her more than her cousins.
:)

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Post by MissLT » Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:06 pm

If I remember it correctly Rochester was tricked into marrying a nutcase, so he decided to divorce her. However, she was too crazy too know what was going on, I believe.

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Post by Dixie » Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:31 pm

LennyeTran wrote:If I remember it correctly Rochester was tricked into marrying a nutcase, so he decided to divorce her. However, she was too crazy too know what was going on, I believe.
I might be barking the wrong tree now, because it's been a long time since I read the novel, but I think my professor said that Rochester's wife wasn't actually crazy. Like I said in a previous post, that woman and Jane were opposites, which means that while Jane was "the angel in the house", that is to say, what a wife was supposed to be in those times (obedient of her husband, never leaving the house without his permission, doing the chores, taking care of the children, etc), Rochester's wife was a woman of principles who didn't want to stick to those rules, and that's why she was taken for a nutcase and shut in the attic.

Sorry if I'm mistaken, I'm just trying to state what little I remember from the analysis we made...

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Post by MissLT » Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:15 pm

Let me find that chapter tonight (don't have time right now). If I remember it correctly, she was found with mental disorder or illness, which her brother didn't announce to Rochester. It was genetics or something like that. And later then she had tried to kill Rochester many times; hence, was locked in her own room.

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well girls,

Post by LadyMacbeth » Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:51 pm

Actually Rochester's wife must have been his prick of conscience when he tried to hide her existance in front of Jane.
Why?
When they were such friends why he didn't want to tell her about his kid and hidden wife?

I would think he must have had much more to hide generally. Not only ill wife.
All in all I would never try to find him again. For me it couldn't be possible in real life to be happy for a longer time. I think Jane must have died to make the story realistic -or marry a poor clergyman.
Her happy marriage to rich though crippled Rochester is of very little probability. This kid of their at the end... he had another as far as we know. But did he have only one kid besides the one with Jane?
In my opinion in 5 years 2 other kids of his would have found their father.

What is your opinion?
:roll: :roll: :roll:

PS. I have always admired people who are able to write next book describing another.

:)

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Post by MissLT » Fri Sep 01, 2006 6:42 am

Okay, found it, It's in chapter 26. The secret was spilled during their ceremony in the Church,

I have been married, and the woman to whom I was married lives! You say you never heard of a Mrs. Rochester at the house up yonder, Wood; but I daresay you have many a time inclined your ear to gossip about the mysterious lunatic kept there under watch and ward. Some have whispered to you that she is my bastard half-sister: some, my cast- off mistress. I now inform you that she is my wife, whom I married fifteen years ago,--Bertha Mason by name; sister of this resolute personage, who is now, with his quivering limbs and white cheeks, showing you what a stout heart men may bear. Cheer up, Dick!--never fear me!--I'd almost as soon strike a woman as you. Bertha Mason is mad; and she came of a mad family; idiots and maniacs through three generations? Her mother, the Creole, was both a madwoman and a drunkard!--as I found out after I had wed the daughter: for they were silent on family secrets before. Bertha, like a dutiful child, copied her parent in both points. I had a charming partner--pure, wise, modest: you can fancy I was a happy man. I went through rich scenes! Oh! my experience has been heavenly, if you only knew it!

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Post by MissLT » Fri Sep 01, 2006 6:50 am

Found it,

http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/janeeyre/

I only agree to some of the explanations, but whatever....

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hi Lennye

Post by LadyMacbeth » Fri Sep 01, 2006 3:17 pm

I don't know when will I write a next post here cause I am banned from englishclub.com on my home computer again. Besides I don't have neither time nor money to type elsewhere too often.
Probably I would have to find a literature forum to present there my litearate ideas or open another blog of mine cause my old blog is also disactivated and I cannot put there any new posts:(
However the story of Rochester is really interesting in some aspects. These all family secrets... they cause plenty of tragedies all over the world. But I think each family has some well hidden secrets, don't you think Lennye?
But I am this kind of person who claims that VERY often is enough to look into eyes of the person whom you are talking to to guess many things.
Though I have to admit that I was in some situations in my life when some facts were hidden perfectly.
But then the other person needed someone to talk to /to confess to and after short time everything was clear. So no hurry sometimes is the best advisor and lets us to avoid many troubles indeed.
What common does it have with a story of Rochester?
Maybe he married to hastily and hadn't checked many things before. Family is the base. Specially the third generation of our ancestors:(((. As deals me I have never had IMPORTANT things to hide. As life shows - truth clams its price. Others lie and cheat and live more comfortable life than mine.
Choice is up to ourselves.

PS. Privately I never want to hear about anyone's marriage problems. These problems aren't mine cause I am not married. I also less and less like to hear about problems with kids cause people are deaf and they like talking without hearing when in my opinion delivering kid and bringing him/her up for a valuable human being is alaways a long and difficult way to take.

Love is a blind feeling and people mostly stop to think rationally when they are in love. When daily reality is something completely different from blind love. Sometimes however people hide important things. But you know - many people are killed when guilt is far from them and still many questions aren't answered.
:(
But the most important is having some things that we like doing, some people whom we like talking to, some places we like visiting and ...money for petrol to visit them.
Personally I think this whole Rochester should have cared about his daughter much more than having another baby with Jane and he should have tried to find all these women whom he had hurt before Jane appeared. Young, sweet, rather ugly and poor Jane Eyre didn't want to marry a clergyman when she inherited some money at last.
:)

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Re: hi Lennye

Post by MissLT » Fri Sep 01, 2006 4:37 pm

LadyMacbeth wrote:I don't know when will I write a next post here cause I am banned from englishclub.com on my home computer again. Besides I don't have neither time nor money to type elsewhere too often.
Why did you get banned? :shock:
LadyMacbeth wrote:Probably I would have to find a literature forum to present there my litearate ideas or open another blog of mine cause my old blog is also disactivated and I cannot put there any new posts:(
Why don't you make a page at Yahoo 360 degrees to blog. I'll participate there. If you set it for public, people will, too.
LadyMacbeth wrote:However the story of Rochester is really interesting in some aspects. These all family secrets... they cause plenty of tragedies all over the world. But I think each family has some well hidden secrets, don't you think Lennye?
Yeah, the story happened in the 18 century; therefore, I'd like to believe Bertha was really a
person who had mental disorder. However, Rochester was a man of upper-class. If people of his class knew her conditions, he would be excluded out of the group. Hence, he locked her in the room and stopped fulfilling the job of a husband.

Without proper care and treatment, she went mad and madder every day, I guess. And the hatred towards his abandon was probably one of the reasons that she stayed alive, to kill him. I don't know.... :?
LadyMacbeth wrote:What common does it have with a story of Rochester?
Maybe he married to hastily and hadn't checked many things before. Family is the base.
To me, he tended to marry maidens in his class. Ingram is an example. He was supposed to marry her until Jane came into his life. I think this is the reason why Jane fell in love with him since he tried to beat the old traditions to marry a governess of his child, or in other words, a maid, right?

His words, tenderness, care, etc. were the reasons why Jane had refused to marry St. John so many times, for she knew she would die slowly in India with a loveless marriage. She'd experienced love; she knew its presence in John: there was none.

Anyway, she was hurt with the truth, but I think she came back to Rochester afterwards because his debt had paid off-- he was blind and poor. Right?
LadyMacbeth wrote:Personally I think this whole Rochester should have cared about his daughter much more than having another baby with Jane and he should have tried to find all these women whom he had hurt before Jane appeared.
What he found in Jane was the mother instinct, which Ingram didn't have. His daughter would be in Jane's good care.
LadyMacbeth wrote:Young, sweet, rather ugly and poor Jane Eyre didn't want to marry a clergyman when she inherited some money at last.
:)
She did try to come back to him, didn't she? :?

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hello:)

Post by LadyMacbeth » Fri Sep 01, 2006 6:26 pm

Hi,
Why did you get banned?
Sometimes I am unable to open this wonderful forum:(.
And I think it is a result of banning me again:(
I have rather pessimistic vision of life - why shouldn't I be damn right again?:(
Any particular reasons?
:(
Why don't you make a page at Yahoo 360 degrees to blog. I'll participate there. If you set it for public, people will, too.
Well..who knows what can happen in future?
Maybe I will activate another hyper interesting blog of mine somewhere else in the cyber space?
;)
Rochester was a man of upper-class.
Yes - I think it made him particualrly intersting to later rich Jane who hadnot been any lady at all.
But (my opinion) her lower origin was also a reason of preventing the marriage. If she was wealthier - I think noone would have disturbed newly weds during church ceremony;).


PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 4:37 pm Post subject: Re: hi Lennye
LadyMacbeth wrote:
I don't know when will I write a next post here cause I am banned from englishclub.com on my home computer again. Besides I don't have neither time nor money to type elsewhere too often.

Why did you get banned? Shocked

LadyMacbeth wrote:
Probably I would have to find a literature forum to present there my litearate ideas or open another blog of mine cause my old blog is also disactivated and I cannot put there any new posts:(

Why don't you make a page at Yahoo 360 degrees to blog. I'll participate there. If you set it for public, people will, too.

LadyMacbeth wrote:
However the story of Rochester is really interesting in some aspects. These all family secrets... they cause plenty of tragedies all over the world. But I think each family has some well hidden secrets, don't you think Lennye?

Yeah, the story happened in the 18 century; therefore, I'd like to believe Bertha was really a
person who had mental disorder. However, Rochester was a man of upper-class. If people of his class knew her conditions, he would be excluded out of the group. Hence, he locked her in the room and stopped fulfilling the job of a husband.

Without proper care and treatment, she went mad and madder every day, I guess. And the hatred towards his abandon was probably one of the reasons that she stayed alive, to kill him. I don't know.... Confused

LadyMacbeth wrote:
What common does it have with a story of Rochester?
Maybe he married to hastily and hadn't checked many things before. Family is the base.
To me, he tended to marry maidens in his class.
Well Lennye in my opinion he was a common womanizer.
I don't try to justify him at all. Neither justify nor try to understand cause for me it is immpossible. He married his wife because of money (the most important factor) , then she became ill and he didn't tell to the woman who he loved and tried to marry that he was married and had a baby?
Oh Lennye - you demand from me too much in this place. I would spit at him. That's all:(
If he had any honour he wouldn't have married Jane at all. Neither he tried to promise her stars when in fact his life was one, big rubbish heap.:(
I think she came back to Rochester afterwards because his debt had paid off-- he was blind and poor. Right?


She didn't have much better eyesight as it seems to me. But she was young and she was an orphan.
What he found in Jane was the mother instinct.
Well I don't try to guess even what he tried to find in women. Mother instinct? Maybe. But somehow I don't believe it. Don't know why.
She did try to come back to him, didn't she?
Did she try to come back to clergyman?
Really? When?
Well.. I think I will have to read full version of this book one day.

regards:)
LM

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Re: hello:)

Post by MissLT » Fri Sep 01, 2006 6:33 pm

LadyMacbeth wrote:Hi,
Why did you get banned?
Sometimes I am unable to open this wonderful forum:(.
And I think it is a result of banning me again:(
I have rather pessimistic vision of life - why shouldn't I be damn right again?:(
Any particular reasons?
Why don't you ask him? :?


LadyMacbeth wrote:Did she try to come back to clergyman?
Really? When?
Well.. I think I will have to read full version of this book one day.

regards:)

LM
Sorry, wrong person. I thought you were talking about Rochester. I read it too fast. :oops:

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PS.correction of some language errors

Post by LadyMacbeth » Fri Sep 01, 2006 6:37 pm

.....(...)and he didn't tell it to the woman whom he loved and tried to marry that he had been married and had a baby? (...).....

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Post by MissLT » Sat Sep 02, 2006 7:59 am

LadyMacbeth wrote:Well Lennye in my opinion he was a common womanizer.
I don't try to justify him at all. Neither justify nor try to understand cause for me it is immpossible. He married his wife because of money (the most important factor) , then she became ill and he didn't tell to the woman who he loved and tried to marry that he was married and had a baby?
Oh Lennye - you demand from me too much in this place. I would spit at him. That's all:(
If he had any honour he wouldn't have married Jane at all. Neither he tried to promise her stars when in fact his life was one, big rubbish heap.:(

regards:)
LM
You could say it's impossible trying to figure out his personality since it's a novel. On the other hand, it's the beauty of it: you can get your imagination goes wild. You could use the words that describe him to back him up or go against him.

As for my case, I'd like to do the pro and not con part. I'd like to believe he was a victim of his time. He was a victim of his society, which expected people of the same class wedded to each other. Hence, Bearth and Ingram were the ones for him. However, he went against the traditions to be able to marry to the love of his life, Jane Eyre.

I'd like to believe his love for Jane was real. I find it wrong that he lied to her about his marriage status, which he believed he was lied to. The appropriate suggestion is he should have told her, but in his eyes Jane was pure like a first snowflake of the winter. He was afraid of the fact he would have lost her forever if he told her. It's indeed irrational and inexcuable, yet it's how strong his love was for her-- the fear of losing someone you love so much and the insecurity of not being good enough to keep them. Would you criticize someone with this love?

Why did you think he couldn't marry her? He'd made her felt what was love. He'd made her felt how to miss a person she loved most. A person who is going through life without experience what love is about would have all his/her wasted. Because of Rochester Jane's life wasn't wasted; therefore, he was her soul mate.

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dear Lennye,

Post by LadyMacbeth » Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:12 am

Because of Rochester Jane's life wasn't wasted; therefore, he was her soul mate.
Let me to sum up your long letter. In my opinion Rochster loved money more than anything/anyone else. Doth he could earlier say "NO" to his father's ideas and avoid many troubles. I don't know.
For me at the end of the book Jane was simply rich enough to look for Rochester. She was young, full of snowflake-like ideas and... richer than at the beginning of the book! Rochester was blind.
Did he see any mother-instincts at her? I would rather say he needed a woman, the kid has been delivered.
The end of the story.
He didn't love his first wife. Love is stronger than illness. You also don't know what your future can be.
I know some stunning stories when husbands were betraying their wives all time round but when they fell ill they changed into their saint nurses.
How this can be explained? By pricks of conscience?
:roll: :roll: :roll:
Read you soon:)
LM

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ps.

Post by LadyMacbeth » Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:19 am

I would say - Rochester took the opportunity. Jane Eyre by herself found him. He didn't have to look for her even. And watch - he was already blind:(.

Well... this is how simple some big, romantic love stories can end up.

PS. Jane should have been rather a nurse - then she could help to the more amount of people in need.
A kid- she could have one without Rochester too (my opinion). Only then she didn't have such a wonderful house (as I remember). And she wouldn't have been someone like... lady Jane Rochester:)

hahaha:(
LM

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Post by MissLT » Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:22 am

Seeeee, this is where I think you have different view about his love for Jane. He proposed to her when she was poor and was his daughter's governess. She didn't know about the money she was inherited until she ran away from him, right? :?

Technically, he didn't wanna marry her for her money; he wanted to marry her for who she was. He'd made a mistake with Bertha and would be with Ingram if he married her. He'd realized his problem and fixed it before it was too late.

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Re: dear Lennye,

Post by MissLT » Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:27 am

LadyMacbeth wrote:
He didn't love his first wife. Love is stronger than illness. You also don't know what your future can be.

Read you soon:)
LM
This, I agree with you. That's why I believe he didn't feel guilty locking her up. He didn't have any love for her to feel he should have fulfilled his job as her husband. He'd broken his marriage vows; however, those vows weren't made by love, were they?

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oki Lennye,

Post by LadyMacbeth » Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:29 am

you are mostly right - but this question - what was love for Jane? She had a job thanks to Rochester. She was happy in his house. Mind her life before finding job at Rochester - she didn't take any care from anyone. She learnt to be independent and earn money for living. Rochester seemed to be an angel for her (if she is regarded to be another angel).
But I wouldn't compare her to any angel. This is again a difference of thinking. Angels are ghosts. Angels don't suffer. People live and suffer. She could be found as a saint person but she wasn't any saint person cause she didn't want to live for God and marry a poor clergyman. She preffered living in luxuries.
Saint people choose poverty cause than richness cause then they concentrate much more on spiritual aspect of life. Jane cared about other things more and she was a human being so how could she be an angel?
AMEN:)
LM

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ps. petty correction:)

Post by LadyMacbeth » Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:32 am

Saint people rather choose poverty than richness cause then they can concentrate much more on spiritual aspect of life.

:) :) :)

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Post by MissLT » Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:37 am

I wouldn't call her as an angel. I would say pure, though. But I guess people can exaggerate their feelings to talk about someone they love, right?

If you read the part about her conversation with St. John and the reason she'd refused to join him to a trip to India so many times because she was in love with Rochester. She'd experienced love; therefore, she could tell the marriage she would have with John would be loveless, and it could make her dying slowly inside.

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Re: ps. petty correction:)

Post by MissLT » Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:40 am

LadyMacbeth wrote:Saint people rather choose poverty than richness cause then they can concentrate much more on spiritual aspect of life.

:) :) :)
Saint people wouldn't have the love that we have, the love for the opposite sex. What they have is the love for humanity and/or God. We have our love for our partner. It's different. That's why Jane and St. John were different. He saw marriage as a way to serve God; she saw it as a way to show you much she loved her future spouse.

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well...

Post by LadyMacbeth » Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:59 am

In this place I would like to come back to one earlier Dixie's letter in that thread that contained a point about pronunciation and not only.
2) Jane's name: Eyre. It is pronounced like "air", "heir"... According to my professor, it can have different meanings. I think Jane is the heiress of something in the end, right? I really should read it again...
For me Eyre was more like "EYE" at the first sight but in fact the pronunciation goes more about "HEIR", "AIR".

So once again - at the end of the book she was rich and found Rochester who was blind.

If she was poor she would probably have gone to India and forgot about rich, blind, bigamist -Rochester.
She could be saint nurse of hundreds but she became a Rochester's nurse.

I know very little about St John from my READER level 2. Maybe simply Jane Eyre didn't like the idea of travelling to India when she could live in a nice mansion with Rochester. Maybe Rochester seemed to her to be more sexually attractive?
:roll:
Well... personally I would put the stress on this HEIR-like pronunciation.
However still "Jane Eyre" is a masterpiece of world literature and such books have infinitive possibilities of interpretation.
Regards,
LM

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Post by MissLT » Sat Sep 02, 2006 9:11 am

I see the reason of her coming back in a different way. I think she could hear his voice calling her in the wind (her heart was screaming for his love). She heard about his news, and now it was her turn to show her love for him by taking him as who he was, blind and poor. She wanted to be his eyes guiding him from that moment on.

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hmmm

Post by LadyMacbeth » Sat Sep 02, 2006 11:34 am

I think she could hear his voice calling her in the wind (her heart was screaming for his love).
Well.. Lennye - I wish it could be truth. Can it be however? Maybe - she was younger and deaf about the fact he was a common cheater without any idea of what honor is:(.

On the other side Jane Eyre can also sound a bit like Jane "Weird" (Jane "EYE" was my first idea reading "EYRE" about the title of this book). Because she was bit weird. She preferd to go to boarding schools and to other people instead of staying with her distant family. She was very young then. She surely didn't have happy childhood.

PS. But Jane Eyre can also look like Jane "TYRE" nowadays. To what new interpretation can lead us this idea? That Jane Eyre didn't have any carriage and had to walk on foot to look for Rochester or to leave his house? Remember that she took a coach when leaving Rochester but finally was left on the moor cause she didn't have money. So maybe another book about Jane "TYRE"?
:roll: :roll: :roll:

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Re: hmmm

Post by MissLT » Sat Sep 02, 2006 3:41 pm

LadyMacbeth wrote:
I think she could hear his voice calling her in the wind (her heart was screaming for his love).
Well.. Lennye - I wish it could be truth. Can it be however? Maybe - she was younger and deaf about the fact he was a common cheater without any idea of what honor is:(.
It's up to how you interpret it. To me it was a figure of speech of the heart wants what it wants, and in this paragraph, she wanted to be with him.

Anyway, the last chapter XXXVIII (38, I believe) of her life were interesting to read. It summed up everything that she was supposed to have during childhood life, but now she gained it through other means in adult life.
LadyMacbeth wrote:On the other side Jane Eyre can also sound a bit like Jane "Weird" (Jane "EYE" was my first idea reading "EYRE" about the title of this book). Because she was bit weird. She preferd to go to boarding schools and to other people instead of staying with her distant family. She was very young then. She surely didn't have happy childhood.
Young, stubborn, and didn't have much love. Her aunt didn't treat her like her own child, which she went against the will. :roll:

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hello again:)

Post by LadyMacbeth » Sat Sep 02, 2006 4:27 pm

It's up to how you interpret it.
Exactedly! I will reread with attention the last chapter of this book in original version.
However I have to admit I really like my idea of Jane Tyre. Why? Because she got out of the coach on the moors (without her bag that was left inside) cause she didn't have money to pay for! Thus she met her cousins that she had to pay some money of the will she inherited. Otherwise she didn't have to divide it with anyone and in her life was noone but Rochester who was worthy of thinking about him.

When she found him at last (he went to him by coach again) he was blind and without one hand. Thus he was quite OK to marry Jane and be happy with her.

or I don't know...
Young, stubborn, and didn't have much love.
Well.. actually I found the part with voices calling Jane across the moor. In fact - there is something like in the book. I wonder, however, if it is probably. But yes - it is. Blind, crippled, poor Rochester calling for Jane Eyre across the moor.

Whom you would chose Lennye - if I can ask you?
St John or Rochester?
Or ...someone/something else. For example lonely travel to India?

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Re: hello again:)

Post by MissLT » Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:02 pm

LadyMacbeth wrote:
Whom you would chose Lennye - if I can ask you?
St John or Rochester?
Or ...someone/something else. For example lonely travel to India?
Of course, I'd pick Rochester. I would pick him over St. John in any day of the week, that's for sure.

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hmmm

Post by LadyMacbeth » Sun Sep 03, 2006 10:28 am

I am not so sure. As deals "Jane Eyre" I would travel to India on my own. In my level 2 is very little about St John. Anyway in my country women rather cannot marry clergymen and the last are rather rich. I mean surely richer than protestant clergymen. But catholics have also better churches. I mean richer churches. Protestants took away all things from churches into their homes. I don't like protestant churches at all.
And this Rochester... bigamist with a child whose real story he tried to hide from his future wife... oh - in my age I would surely go into India on my own.
I would have very few hopes that Rochester will be a good man in future. Specially when he will recover.

You know - he should have divorced the mad woman in the attic when he never loved her. It would be probably more honest than keeping her in cage instaed of trying to treat.

Thus she tried to make him dead so many times. And she was right I think. And at last she ruined his beautiful house.

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Re: hmmm

Post by MissLT » Mon Sep 04, 2006 2:45 am

LadyMacbeth wrote:I am not so sure. As deals "Jane Eyre" I would travel to India on my own.
India trip was up in the air only because John wanted to go there, and he wanted her to go with him, not as a sister or cousin but as his wife. She had to travel on the mission with his as his wife or stay home, no other choice.
LadyMacbeth wrote: In my level 2 is very little about St John.
What's the big difference between the original work and the level you're reading? I think your English is well enough to read the original work. You should give it a try. :wink:
LadyMacbeth wrote:oh - in my age I would surely go into India on my own.
You should. My grandma's friend went there and she loved it. She said the country was soooooo beautiful and different. It's nothing like a Third World country, and yet it's nothing like a Westernized country. The people are religious but humble. The food is great. Okay, I think I should stop before I sound like I've been there already :lol: :lol: .
LadyMacbeth wrote:I would have very few hopes that Rochester will be a good man in future. Specially when he will recover.
To me, he was the same man before and after he got blind and handicapped, his love for her stayed the same.
LadyMacbeth wrote:You know - he should have divorced the mad woman in the attic when he never loved her. It would be probably more honest than keeping her in cage instaed of trying to treat.
This story happened in the 18 century, you know. I believe at that time people still didn't really recognize divorce. I mean, up till now the Catholic Church still doesn't really recognize divorce. My boyfriend's mom has been divorced with his dad for years, but she still carries his last name and didn't bother to change back to her maiden last name. I asked him why, and he told me she got used to it. Besides, even though they're are divorced, but under God, they're still one, he said.

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money

Post by LadyMacbeth » Mon Sep 04, 2006 1:15 pm

She had to travel on the mission with his as his wife or stay home, no other choice.
But later she inherited some money so she could go there on her own as I think. If she wanted. 20 thousand pounds were enough to pay for that travel.
I think your English is well enough to read full version. You should give it a try.
My English depends on many factors et. hurry, time of day, general mood, level of concentration and attention. If these al elements work well - my English is civil. If now - it is bit...horrible:)
Like...a story about Count Dracula from Transylvania:)
The people are religious but humble. The food is great.
Many English books have Hindu plots. But very few things about religion there. And about Hindu food too!:(
To me, he was the same man before and after he got blind and handicapped, his love for her stayed the same.
Yes - but first he had had to take off the mask/the disguise he liked. All in all it was easy cause everyone could see he was blind and without one hand. Isn't it a symbolic situation somehow?
:roll: :roll: :roll:
My boyfriend's mom has been divorced with his dad for years, but she still carries his last name and didn't bother to change back to her maiden last name.
I would change it back. Though I am not sure. If she had loved him she hadn't chnaged it. Doesn't it look like this?

Cheers,
LM

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Re: money

Post by MissLT » Mon Sep 04, 2006 2:58 pm

LadyMacbeth wrote: But later she inherited some money so she could go there on her own as I think. If she wanted. 20 thousand pounds were enough to pay for that travel.
Yeah, you can say that, but I don't really bother to go into that much detail. I mean, if that was the case, I might as well think how she intimated with a blind man and crippled hannds because the author said they had a child afterwards. :lol: :lol:
LadyMacbeth wrote:My English depends on many factors et. hurry, time of day, general mood, level of concentration and attention. If these al elements work well - my English is civil. If now - it is bit...horrible:)
Like...a story about Count Dracula from Transylvania:)
If you could beat these distractions, I think you should give it a try. Trust me, your English is well enough to comprehend the original one.
LadyMacbeth wrote:Many English books have Hindu plots. But very few things about religion there. And about Hindu food too!:(
I also haven't read anything that really talks about India except a mention of it. For example, a trip to India like in this novel; that's it, nothing else. Maybe I'll check it with the librarian to see what she would recommend. I'll tell you about it if it turns out nice.
LadyMacbeth wrote:Yes - but first he had had to take off the mask/the disguise he liked. All in all it was easy cause everyone could see he was blind and without one hand. Isn't it a symbolic situation somehow?
:roll: :roll: :roll:
Yes, it is. He was cruel to his own wife if you judge him based on today's standards. However, he did try to save her when she was trying to kill him, which proved he did not love her, yet he cared about her as a human being. Can't you give him some credits for this act?

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well...

Post by LadyMacbeth » Mon Sep 04, 2006 6:59 pm

I mean, if that was the case, I might as well think how she intimated with a blind man and crippled hannds because the author said they had a child afterwards.
As you can see Lennye love is really a blind feeling. He had cheated her, had hidden so many things in front of her and she still loved him... I know it so good but... it doesn't make any sense to me any longer I am afraid:(
Trust me, your English is well enough to comprehend the original one.
Of I only had more time...:)
I also haven't read anything that really talks about India except a mention of it.
Well.. it would be necessary to read some guide books to know more about India. In British books we can mostly read that someone comes back from India and that someone...died in India thus another person comes back. Or that someone died in GB thus another person is leaving for India etc. So India sounds like a place of something final. But I don't know of what...:(
However, he did try to save her when she was trying to kill him, which proved he did not love her, yet he cared about her as a human being.
I think he should have placed her into mental asylum so he could have avoided many attempts of murder and other aggresions. However he didn't do it. Why?
Did he care about her really? Or rather he was scared of her family-lawyers?
We should have asked him probably...:(

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Re: well...

Post by MissLT » Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:02 pm

LadyMacbeth wrote:
As you can see Lennye love is really a blind feeling. He had cheated her, had hidden so many things in front of her and she still loved him... I know it so good but... it doesn't make any sense to me any longer I am afraid:(
:cry: It is, indeed. We often want people we can't have, or we are not satisfied with our current love life, always look for more. In addtions, we thnk we should share everything if we love each other, even the deepest secret. Well, this is how I thought. However, now I just don't care if my loved one doesn't tell me about his past. Maybe this sounds stupid because someone's past is a past, but it's still who they were before who they are now or who they've been. For some reason I just don't care about it anymore. If he wants to tell me, it's fine. Otherwise, I don't bother to ask.
LadyMacbeth wrote:I think he should have placed her into mental asylum so he could have avoided many attempts of murder and other aggresions. However he didn't do it. Why?
Did he care about her really? Or rather he was scared of her family-lawyers?
We should have asked him probably...:(
He was in the upper class group. I don't think he would let others know that he had a crazy wife. I think it'd be an embarrassment during that century.

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hmmm

Post by LadyMacbeth » Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:36 pm

However, now I just don't care if my loved one doesn't tell me about his past. Maybe this sounds stupid because someone's past is a past, but it's still who they were before who they are now or who they've been. For some reason I just don't care about it anymore. If he wants to tell me, it's fine. Otherwise, I don't bother to ask.
I think it depends on hat he hides and why and on many other things like that. Personally I would feel definitely offended and humiliated by the fact that some wouldnot have bothered to tell me that he had a wife in the attic. It would be something unforgivable to me. Probably you never found yourself in situation when someone who says that he loves you tells you that he has a child with Chilian singer but noone knows about it - neither his kids nor his first wife.
I claim it is very difficult to accept that someone is a bastard but better to cry a bit and have a clear future than plenty of eternal illusions about another person.
But probably you would choose option number 2.
Fortunatelly I wasn't in love and I kicked this guy so strong that even today I am surprised how fast I was in my only right reaction:)
And I hope that one day I will get my prize for all my right choices in my life full of different choices:)
He was in the upper class group. I don't think he would let others know that he had a crazy wife. I think it'd be an embarrassment during that century.
It was enough that lawyers had known. These little beats know everything - specially when it goes around money. In whole books they are the worst characters.
Lawyers, doctors and..nurses.
The lawyer and her brother - it was enough to prevent Mr Bigamist from his next marriage.

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little correction

Post by LadyMacbeth » Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:39 pm

little beasts

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last ps.

Post by LadyMacbeth » Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:40 pm

all books

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Post by MissLT » Wed Sep 06, 2006 5:15 pm

There's a novel of Qiongyao (a Chinese writer) in Chinese that's translated in Vietnamese, which I think sounds similar to Jane Eyre. I think you would like this novel more than Jane Eyre. Let me check around to see what's it called.

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