"Jane Eyre"

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MissLT
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Post by MissLT » Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:06 pm

If I remember it correctly Rochester was tricked into marrying a nutcase, so he decided to divorce her. However, she was too crazy too know what was going on, I believe.

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Post by Dixie » Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:31 pm

LennyeTran wrote:If I remember it correctly Rochester was tricked into marrying a nutcase, so he decided to divorce her. However, she was too crazy too know what was going on, I believe.
I might be barking the wrong tree now, because it's been a long time since I read the novel, but I think my professor said that Rochester's wife wasn't actually crazy. Like I said in a previous post, that woman and Jane were opposites, which means that while Jane was "the angel in the house", that is to say, what a wife was supposed to be in those times (obedient of her husband, never leaving the house without his permission, doing the chores, taking care of the children, etc), Rochester's wife was a woman of principles who didn't want to stick to those rules, and that's why she was taken for a nutcase and shut in the attic.

Sorry if I'm mistaken, I'm just trying to state what little I remember from the analysis we made...

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Post by MissLT » Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:15 pm

Let me find that chapter tonight (don't have time right now). If I remember it correctly, she was found with mental disorder or illness, which her brother didn't announce to Rochester. It was genetics or something like that. And later then she had tried to kill Rochester many times; hence, was locked in her own room.

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well girls,

Post by LadyMacbeth » Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:51 pm

Actually Rochester's wife must have been his prick of conscience when he tried to hide her existance in front of Jane.
Why?
When they were such friends why he didn't want to tell her about his kid and hidden wife?

I would think he must have had much more to hide generally. Not only ill wife.
All in all I would never try to find him again. For me it couldn't be possible in real life to be happy for a longer time. I think Jane must have died to make the story realistic -or marry a poor clergyman.
Her happy marriage to rich though crippled Rochester is of very little probability. This kid of their at the end... he had another as far as we know. But did he have only one kid besides the one with Jane?
In my opinion in 5 years 2 other kids of his would have found their father.

What is your opinion?
:roll: :roll: :roll:

PS. I have always admired people who are able to write next book describing another.

:)

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Post by MissLT » Fri Sep 01, 2006 6:42 am

Okay, found it, It's in chapter 26. The secret was spilled during their ceremony in the Church,

I have been married, and the woman to whom I was married lives! You say you never heard of a Mrs. Rochester at the house up yonder, Wood; but I daresay you have many a time inclined your ear to gossip about the mysterious lunatic kept there under watch and ward. Some have whispered to you that she is my bastard half-sister: some, my cast- off mistress. I now inform you that she is my wife, whom I married fifteen years ago,--Bertha Mason by name; sister of this resolute personage, who is now, with his quivering limbs and white cheeks, showing you what a stout heart men may bear. Cheer up, Dick!--never fear me!--I'd almost as soon strike a woman as you. Bertha Mason is mad; and she came of a mad family; idiots and maniacs through three generations? Her mother, the Creole, was both a madwoman and a drunkard!--as I found out after I had wed the daughter: for they were silent on family secrets before. Bertha, like a dutiful child, copied her parent in both points. I had a charming partner--pure, wise, modest: you can fancy I was a happy man. I went through rich scenes! Oh! my experience has been heavenly, if you only knew it!

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Post by MissLT » Fri Sep 01, 2006 6:50 am

Found it,

http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/janeeyre/

I only agree to some of the explanations, but whatever....

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hi Lennye

Post by LadyMacbeth » Fri Sep 01, 2006 3:17 pm

I don't know when will I write a next post here cause I am banned from englishclub.com on my home computer again. Besides I don't have neither time nor money to type elsewhere too often.
Probably I would have to find a literature forum to present there my litearate ideas or open another blog of mine cause my old blog is also disactivated and I cannot put there any new posts:(
However the story of Rochester is really interesting in some aspects. These all family secrets... they cause plenty of tragedies all over the world. But I think each family has some well hidden secrets, don't you think Lennye?
But I am this kind of person who claims that VERY often is enough to look into eyes of the person whom you are talking to to guess many things.
Though I have to admit that I was in some situations in my life when some facts were hidden perfectly.
But then the other person needed someone to talk to /to confess to and after short time everything was clear. So no hurry sometimes is the best advisor and lets us to avoid many troubles indeed.
What common does it have with a story of Rochester?
Maybe he married to hastily and hadn't checked many things before. Family is the base. Specially the third generation of our ancestors:(((. As deals me I have never had IMPORTANT things to hide. As life shows - truth clams its price. Others lie and cheat and live more comfortable life than mine.
Choice is up to ourselves.

PS. Privately I never want to hear about anyone's marriage problems. These problems aren't mine cause I am not married. I also less and less like to hear about problems with kids cause people are deaf and they like talking without hearing when in my opinion delivering kid and bringing him/her up for a valuable human being is alaways a long and difficult way to take.

Love is a blind feeling and people mostly stop to think rationally when they are in love. When daily reality is something completely different from blind love. Sometimes however people hide important things. But you know - many people are killed when guilt is far from them and still many questions aren't answered.
:(
But the most important is having some things that we like doing, some people whom we like talking to, some places we like visiting and ...money for petrol to visit them.
Personally I think this whole Rochester should have cared about his daughter much more than having another baby with Jane and he should have tried to find all these women whom he had hurt before Jane appeared. Young, sweet, rather ugly and poor Jane Eyre didn't want to marry a clergyman when she inherited some money at last.
:)

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Re: hi Lennye

Post by MissLT » Fri Sep 01, 2006 4:37 pm

LadyMacbeth wrote:I don't know when will I write a next post here cause I am banned from englishclub.com on my home computer again. Besides I don't have neither time nor money to type elsewhere too often.
Why did you get banned? :shock:
LadyMacbeth wrote:Probably I would have to find a literature forum to present there my litearate ideas or open another blog of mine cause my old blog is also disactivated and I cannot put there any new posts:(
Why don't you make a page at Yahoo 360 degrees to blog. I'll participate there. If you set it for public, people will, too.
LadyMacbeth wrote:However the story of Rochester is really interesting in some aspects. These all family secrets... they cause plenty of tragedies all over the world. But I think each family has some well hidden secrets, don't you think Lennye?
Yeah, the story happened in the 18 century; therefore, I'd like to believe Bertha was really a
person who had mental disorder. However, Rochester was a man of upper-class. If people of his class knew her conditions, he would be excluded out of the group. Hence, he locked her in the room and stopped fulfilling the job of a husband.

Without proper care and treatment, she went mad and madder every day, I guess. And the hatred towards his abandon was probably one of the reasons that she stayed alive, to kill him. I don't know.... :?
LadyMacbeth wrote:What common does it have with a story of Rochester?
Maybe he married to hastily and hadn't checked many things before. Family is the base.
To me, he tended to marry maidens in his class. Ingram is an example. He was supposed to marry her until Jane came into his life. I think this is the reason why Jane fell in love with him since he tried to beat the old traditions to marry a governess of his child, or in other words, a maid, right?

His words, tenderness, care, etc. were the reasons why Jane had refused to marry St. John so many times, for she knew she would die slowly in India with a loveless marriage. She'd experienced love; she knew its presence in John: there was none.

Anyway, she was hurt with the truth, but I think she came back to Rochester afterwards because his debt had paid off-- he was blind and poor. Right?
LadyMacbeth wrote:Personally I think this whole Rochester should have cared about his daughter much more than having another baby with Jane and he should have tried to find all these women whom he had hurt before Jane appeared.
What he found in Jane was the mother instinct, which Ingram didn't have. His daughter would be in Jane's good care.
LadyMacbeth wrote:Young, sweet, rather ugly and poor Jane Eyre didn't want to marry a clergyman when she inherited some money at last.
:)
She did try to come back to him, didn't she? :?

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hello:)

Post by LadyMacbeth » Fri Sep 01, 2006 6:26 pm

Hi,
Why did you get banned?
Sometimes I am unable to open this wonderful forum:(.
And I think it is a result of banning me again:(
I have rather pessimistic vision of life - why shouldn't I be damn right again?:(
Any particular reasons?
:(
Why don't you make a page at Yahoo 360 degrees to blog. I'll participate there. If you set it for public, people will, too.
Well..who knows what can happen in future?
Maybe I will activate another hyper interesting blog of mine somewhere else in the cyber space?
;)
Rochester was a man of upper-class.
Yes - I think it made him particualrly intersting to later rich Jane who hadnot been any lady at all.
But (my opinion) her lower origin was also a reason of preventing the marriage. If she was wealthier - I think noone would have disturbed newly weds during church ceremony;).


PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 4:37 pm Post subject: Re: hi Lennye
LadyMacbeth wrote:
I don't know when will I write a next post here cause I am banned from englishclub.com on my home computer again. Besides I don't have neither time nor money to type elsewhere too often.

Why did you get banned? Shocked

LadyMacbeth wrote:
Probably I would have to find a literature forum to present there my litearate ideas or open another blog of mine cause my old blog is also disactivated and I cannot put there any new posts:(

Why don't you make a page at Yahoo 360 degrees to blog. I'll participate there. If you set it for public, people will, too.

LadyMacbeth wrote:
However the story of Rochester is really interesting in some aspects. These all family secrets... they cause plenty of tragedies all over the world. But I think each family has some well hidden secrets, don't you think Lennye?

Yeah, the story happened in the 18 century; therefore, I'd like to believe Bertha was really a
person who had mental disorder. However, Rochester was a man of upper-class. If people of his class knew her conditions, he would be excluded out of the group. Hence, he locked her in the room and stopped fulfilling the job of a husband.

Without proper care and treatment, she went mad and madder every day, I guess. And the hatred towards his abandon was probably one of the reasons that she stayed alive, to kill him. I don't know.... Confused

LadyMacbeth wrote:
What common does it have with a story of Rochester?
Maybe he married to hastily and hadn't checked many things before. Family is the base.
To me, he tended to marry maidens in his class.
Well Lennye in my opinion he was a common womanizer.
I don't try to justify him at all. Neither justify nor try to understand cause for me it is immpossible. He married his wife because of money (the most important factor) , then she became ill and he didn't tell to the woman who he loved and tried to marry that he was married and had a baby?
Oh Lennye - you demand from me too much in this place. I would spit at him. That's all:(
If he had any honour he wouldn't have married Jane at all. Neither he tried to promise her stars when in fact his life was one, big rubbish heap.:(
I think she came back to Rochester afterwards because his debt had paid off-- he was blind and poor. Right?


She didn't have much better eyesight as it seems to me. But she was young and she was an orphan.
What he found in Jane was the mother instinct.
Well I don't try to guess even what he tried to find in women. Mother instinct? Maybe. But somehow I don't believe it. Don't know why.
She did try to come back to him, didn't she?
Did she try to come back to clergyman?
Really? When?
Well.. I think I will have to read full version of this book one day.

regards:)
LM

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Re: hello:)

Post by MissLT » Fri Sep 01, 2006 6:33 pm

LadyMacbeth wrote:Hi,
Why did you get banned?
Sometimes I am unable to open this wonderful forum:(.
And I think it is a result of banning me again:(
I have rather pessimistic vision of life - why shouldn't I be damn right again?:(
Any particular reasons?
Why don't you ask him? :?


LadyMacbeth wrote:Did she try to come back to clergyman?
Really? When?
Well.. I think I will have to read full version of this book one day.

regards:)

LM
Sorry, wrong person. I thought you were talking about Rochester. I read it too fast. :oops:

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PS.correction of some language errors

Post by LadyMacbeth » Fri Sep 01, 2006 6:37 pm

.....(...)and he didn't tell it to the woman whom he loved and tried to marry that he had been married and had a baby? (...).....

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Post by MissLT » Sat Sep 02, 2006 7:59 am

LadyMacbeth wrote:Well Lennye in my opinion he was a common womanizer.
I don't try to justify him at all. Neither justify nor try to understand cause for me it is immpossible. He married his wife because of money (the most important factor) , then she became ill and he didn't tell to the woman who he loved and tried to marry that he was married and had a baby?
Oh Lennye - you demand from me too much in this place. I would spit at him. That's all:(
If he had any honour he wouldn't have married Jane at all. Neither he tried to promise her stars when in fact his life was one, big rubbish heap.:(

regards:)
LM
You could say it's impossible trying to figure out his personality since it's a novel. On the other hand, it's the beauty of it: you can get your imagination goes wild. You could use the words that describe him to back him up or go against him.

As for my case, I'd like to do the pro and not con part. I'd like to believe he was a victim of his time. He was a victim of his society, which expected people of the same class wedded to each other. Hence, Bearth and Ingram were the ones for him. However, he went against the traditions to be able to marry to the love of his life, Jane Eyre.

I'd like to believe his love for Jane was real. I find it wrong that he lied to her about his marriage status, which he believed he was lied to. The appropriate suggestion is he should have told her, but in his eyes Jane was pure like a first snowflake of the winter. He was afraid of the fact he would have lost her forever if he told her. It's indeed irrational and inexcuable, yet it's how strong his love was for her-- the fear of losing someone you love so much and the insecurity of not being good enough to keep them. Would you criticize someone with this love?

Why did you think he couldn't marry her? He'd made her felt what was love. He'd made her felt how to miss a person she loved most. A person who is going through life without experience what love is about would have all his/her wasted. Because of Rochester Jane's life wasn't wasted; therefore, he was her soul mate.

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dear Lennye,

Post by LadyMacbeth » Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:12 am

Because of Rochester Jane's life wasn't wasted; therefore, he was her soul mate.
Let me to sum up your long letter. In my opinion Rochster loved money more than anything/anyone else. Doth he could earlier say "NO" to his father's ideas and avoid many troubles. I don't know.
For me at the end of the book Jane was simply rich enough to look for Rochester. She was young, full of snowflake-like ideas and... richer than at the beginning of the book! Rochester was blind.
Did he see any mother-instincts at her? I would rather say he needed a woman, the kid has been delivered.
The end of the story.
He didn't love his first wife. Love is stronger than illness. You also don't know what your future can be.
I know some stunning stories when husbands were betraying their wives all time round but when they fell ill they changed into their saint nurses.
How this can be explained? By pricks of conscience?
:roll: :roll: :roll:
Read you soon:)
LM

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ps.

Post by LadyMacbeth » Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:19 am

I would say - Rochester took the opportunity. Jane Eyre by herself found him. He didn't have to look for her even. And watch - he was already blind:(.

Well... this is how simple some big, romantic love stories can end up.

PS. Jane should have been rather a nurse - then she could help to the more amount of people in need.
A kid- she could have one without Rochester too (my opinion). Only then she didn't have such a wonderful house (as I remember). And she wouldn't have been someone like... lady Jane Rochester:)

hahaha:(
LM

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Post by MissLT » Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:22 am

Seeeee, this is where I think you have different view about his love for Jane. He proposed to her when she was poor and was his daughter's governess. She didn't know about the money she was inherited until she ran away from him, right? :?

Technically, he didn't wanna marry her for her money; he wanted to marry her for who she was. He'd made a mistake with Bertha and would be with Ingram if he married her. He'd realized his problem and fixed it before it was too late.

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Re: dear Lennye,

Post by MissLT » Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:27 am

LadyMacbeth wrote:
He didn't love his first wife. Love is stronger than illness. You also don't know what your future can be.

Read you soon:)
LM
This, I agree with you. That's why I believe he didn't feel guilty locking her up. He didn't have any love for her to feel he should have fulfilled his job as her husband. He'd broken his marriage vows; however, those vows weren't made by love, were they?

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oki Lennye,

Post by LadyMacbeth » Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:29 am

you are mostly right - but this question - what was love for Jane? She had a job thanks to Rochester. She was happy in his house. Mind her life before finding job at Rochester - she didn't take any care from anyone. She learnt to be independent and earn money for living. Rochester seemed to be an angel for her (if she is regarded to be another angel).
But I wouldn't compare her to any angel. This is again a difference of thinking. Angels are ghosts. Angels don't suffer. People live and suffer. She could be found as a saint person but she wasn't any saint person cause she didn't want to live for God and marry a poor clergyman. She preffered living in luxuries.
Saint people choose poverty cause than richness cause then they concentrate much more on spiritual aspect of life. Jane cared about other things more and she was a human being so how could she be an angel?
AMEN:)
LM

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ps. petty correction:)

Post by LadyMacbeth » Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:32 am

Saint people rather choose poverty than richness cause then they can concentrate much more on spiritual aspect of life.

:) :) :)

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Post by MissLT » Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:37 am

I wouldn't call her as an angel. I would say pure, though. But I guess people can exaggerate their feelings to talk about someone they love, right?

If you read the part about her conversation with St. John and the reason she'd refused to join him to a trip to India so many times because she was in love with Rochester. She'd experienced love; therefore, she could tell the marriage she would have with John would be loveless, and it could make her dying slowly inside.

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Re: ps. petty correction:)

Post by MissLT » Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:40 am

LadyMacbeth wrote:Saint people rather choose poverty than richness cause then they can concentrate much more on spiritual aspect of life.

:) :) :)
Saint people wouldn't have the love that we have, the love for the opposite sex. What they have is the love for humanity and/or God. We have our love for our partner. It's different. That's why Jane and St. John were different. He saw marriage as a way to serve God; she saw it as a way to show you much she loved her future spouse.

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well...

Post by LadyMacbeth » Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:59 am

In this place I would like to come back to one earlier Dixie's letter in that thread that contained a point about pronunciation and not only.
2) Jane's name: Eyre. It is pronounced like "air", "heir"... According to my professor, it can have different meanings. I think Jane is the heiress of something in the end, right? I really should read it again...
For me Eyre was more like "EYE" at the first sight but in fact the pronunciation goes more about "HEIR", "AIR".

So once again - at the end of the book she was rich and found Rochester who was blind.

If she was poor she would probably have gone to India and forgot about rich, blind, bigamist -Rochester.
She could be saint nurse of hundreds but she became a Rochester's nurse.

I know very little about St John from my READER level 2. Maybe simply Jane Eyre didn't like the idea of travelling to India when she could live in a nice mansion with Rochester. Maybe Rochester seemed to her to be more sexually attractive?
:roll:
Well... personally I would put the stress on this HEIR-like pronunciation.
However still "Jane Eyre" is a masterpiece of world literature and such books have infinitive possibilities of interpretation.
Regards,
LM

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