"Jane Eyre"

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Re: hello:)

Postby MissLT » Fri Sep 01, 2006 6:33 pm

LadyMacbeth wrote:Hi,

Why did you get banned?


Sometimes I am unable to open this wonderful forum:(.
And I think it is a result of banning me again:(
I have rather pessimistic vision of life - why shouldn't I be damn right again?:(
Any particular reasons?

Why don't you ask him? :?



LadyMacbeth wrote:Did she try to come back to clergyman?
Really? When?
Well.. I think I will have to read full version of this book one day.

regards:)

LM

Sorry, wrong person. I thought you were talking about Rochester. I read it too fast. :oops:

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PS.correction of some language errors

Postby LadyMacbeth » Fri Sep 01, 2006 6:37 pm

.....(...)and he didn't tell it to the woman whom he loved and tried to marry that he had been married and had a baby? (...).....

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Postby MissLT » Sat Sep 02, 2006 7:59 am

LadyMacbeth wrote:Well Lennye in my opinion he was a common womanizer.
I don't try to justify him at all. Neither justify nor try to understand cause for me it is immpossible. He married his wife because of money (the most important factor) , then she became ill and he didn't tell to the woman who he loved and tried to marry that he was married and had a baby?
Oh Lennye - you demand from me too much in this place. I would spit at him. That's all:(
If he had any honour he wouldn't have married Jane at all. Neither he tried to promise her stars when in fact his life was one, big rubbish heap.:(

regards:)
LM

You could say it's impossible trying to figure out his personality since it's a novel. On the other hand, it's the beauty of it: you can get your imagination goes wild. You could use the words that describe him to back him up or go against him.

As for my case, I'd like to do the pro and not con part. I'd like to believe he was a victim of his time. He was a victim of his society, which expected people of the same class wedded to each other. Hence, Bearth and Ingram were the ones for him. However, he went against the traditions to be able to marry to the love of his life, Jane Eyre.

I'd like to believe his love for Jane was real. I find it wrong that he lied to her about his marriage status, which he believed he was lied to. The appropriate suggestion is he should have told her, but in his eyes Jane was pure like a first snowflake of the winter. He was afraid of the fact he would have lost her forever if he told her. It's indeed irrational and inexcuable, yet it's how strong his love was for her-- the fear of losing someone you love so much and the insecurity of not being good enough to keep them. Would you criticize someone with this love?

Why did you think he couldn't marry her? He'd made her felt what was love. He'd made her felt how to miss a person she loved most. A person who is going through life without experience what love is about would have all his/her wasted. Because of Rochester Jane's life wasn't wasted; therefore, he was her soul mate.

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dear Lennye,

Postby LadyMacbeth » Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:12 am

Because of Rochester Jane's life wasn't wasted; therefore, he was her soul mate.


Let me to sum up your long letter. In my opinion Rochster loved money more than anything/anyone else. Doth he could earlier say "NO" to his father's ideas and avoid many troubles. I don't know.
For me at the end of the book Jane was simply rich enough to look for Rochester. She was young, full of snowflake-like ideas and... richer than at the beginning of the book! Rochester was blind.
Did he see any mother-instincts at her? I would rather say he needed a woman, the kid has been delivered.
The end of the story.
He didn't love his first wife. Love is stronger than illness. You also don't know what your future can be.
I know some stunning stories when husbands were betraying their wives all time round but when they fell ill they changed into their saint nurses.
How this can be explained? By pricks of conscience?
:roll: :roll: :roll:
Read you soon:)
LM

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ps.

Postby LadyMacbeth » Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:19 am

I would say - Rochester took the opportunity. Jane Eyre by herself found him. He didn't have to look for her even. And watch - he was already blind:(.

Well... this is how simple some big, romantic love stories can end up.

PS. Jane should have been rather a nurse - then she could help to the more amount of people in need.
A kid- she could have one without Rochester too (my opinion). Only then she didn't have such a wonderful house (as I remember). And she wouldn't have been someone like... lady Jane Rochester:)

hahaha:(
LM

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Postby MissLT » Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:22 am

Seeeee, this is where I think you have different view about his love for Jane. He proposed to her when she was poor and was his daughter's governess. She didn't know about the money she was inherited until she ran away from him, right? :?

Technically, he didn't wanna marry her for her money; he wanted to marry her for who she was. He'd made a mistake with Bertha and would be with Ingram if he married her. He'd realized his problem and fixed it before it was too late.

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Re: dear Lennye,

Postby MissLT » Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:27 am

LadyMacbeth wrote:
He didn't love his first wife. Love is stronger than illness. You also don't know what your future can be.

Read you soon:)
LM

This, I agree with you. That's why I believe he didn't feel guilty locking her up. He didn't have any love for her to feel he should have fulfilled his job as her husband. He'd broken his marriage vows; however, those vows weren't made by love, were they?

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oki Lennye,

Postby LadyMacbeth » Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:29 am

you are mostly right - but this question - what was love for Jane? She had a job thanks to Rochester. She was happy in his house. Mind her life before finding job at Rochester - she didn't take any care from anyone. She learnt to be independent and earn money for living. Rochester seemed to be an angel for her (if she is regarded to be another angel).
But I wouldn't compare her to any angel. This is again a difference of thinking. Angels are ghosts. Angels don't suffer. People live and suffer. She could be found as a saint person but she wasn't any saint person cause she didn't want to live for God and marry a poor clergyman. She preffered living in luxuries.
Saint people choose poverty cause than richness cause then they concentrate much more on spiritual aspect of life. Jane cared about other things more and she was a human being so how could she be an angel?
AMEN:)
LM

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ps. petty correction:)

Postby LadyMacbeth » Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:32 am

Saint people rather choose poverty than richness cause then they can concentrate much more on spiritual aspect of life.

:) :) :)

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Postby MissLT » Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:37 am

I wouldn't call her as an angel. I would say pure, though. But I guess people can exaggerate their feelings to talk about someone they love, right?

If you read the part about her conversation with St. John and the reason she'd refused to join him to a trip to India so many times because she was in love with Rochester. She'd experienced love; therefore, she could tell the marriage she would have with John would be loveless, and it could make her dying slowly inside.

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Re: ps. petty correction:)

Postby MissLT » Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:40 am

LadyMacbeth wrote:Saint people rather choose poverty than richness cause then they can concentrate much more on spiritual aspect of life.

:) :) :)

Saint people wouldn't have the love that we have, the love for the opposite sex. What they have is the love for humanity and/or God. We have our love for our partner. It's different. That's why Jane and St. John were different. He saw marriage as a way to serve God; she saw it as a way to show you much she loved her future spouse.

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well...

Postby LadyMacbeth » Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:59 am

In this place I would like to come back to one earlier Dixie's letter in that thread that contained a point about pronunciation and not only.

2) Jane's name: Eyre. It is pronounced like "air", "heir"... According to my professor, it can have different meanings. I think Jane is the heiress of something in the end, right? I really should read it again...


For me Eyre was more like "EYE" at the first sight but in fact the pronunciation goes more about "HEIR", "AIR".

So once again - at the end of the book she was rich and found Rochester who was blind.

If she was poor she would probably have gone to India and forgot about rich, blind, bigamist -Rochester.
She could be saint nurse of hundreds but she became a Rochester's nurse.

I know very little about St John from my READER level 2. Maybe simply Jane Eyre didn't like the idea of travelling to India when she could live in a nice mansion with Rochester. Maybe Rochester seemed to her to be more sexually attractive?
:roll:
Well... personally I would put the stress on this HEIR-like pronunciation.
However still "Jane Eyre" is a masterpiece of world literature and such books have infinitive possibilities of interpretation.
Regards,
LM

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Postby MissLT » Sat Sep 02, 2006 9:11 am

I see the reason of her coming back in a different way. I think she could hear his voice calling her in the wind (her heart was screaming for his love). She heard about his news, and now it was her turn to show her love for him by taking him as who he was, blind and poor. She wanted to be his eyes guiding him from that moment on.

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hmmm

Postby LadyMacbeth » Sat Sep 02, 2006 11:34 am

I think she could hear his voice calling her in the wind (her heart was screaming for his love).


Well.. Lennye - I wish it could be truth. Can it be however? Maybe - she was younger and deaf about the fact he was a common cheater without any idea of what honor is:(.

On the other side Jane Eyre can also sound a bit like Jane "Weird" (Jane "EYE" was my first idea reading "EYRE" about the title of this book). Because she was bit weird. She preferd to go to boarding schools and to other people instead of staying with her distant family. She was very young then. She surely didn't have happy childhood.

PS. But Jane Eyre can also look like Jane "TYRE" nowadays. To what new interpretation can lead us this idea? That Jane Eyre didn't have any carriage and had to walk on foot to look for Rochester or to leave his house? Remember that she took a coach when leaving Rochester but finally was left on the moor cause she didn't have money. So maybe another book about Jane "TYRE"?
:roll: :roll: :roll:

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Re: hmmm

Postby MissLT » Sat Sep 02, 2006 3:41 pm

LadyMacbeth wrote:
I think she could hear his voice calling her in the wind (her heart was screaming for his love).


Well.. Lennye - I wish it could be truth. Can it be however? Maybe - she was younger and deaf about the fact he was a common cheater without any idea of what honor is:(.

It's up to how you interpret it. To me it was a figure of speech of the heart wants what it wants, and in this paragraph, she wanted to be with him.

Anyway, the last chapter XXXVIII (38, I believe) of her life were interesting to read. It summed up everything that she was supposed to have during childhood life, but now she gained it through other means in adult life.

LadyMacbeth wrote:On the other side Jane Eyre can also sound a bit like Jane "Weird" (Jane "EYE" was my first idea reading "EYRE" about the title of this book). Because she was bit weird. She preferd to go to boarding schools and to other people instead of staying with her distant family. She was very young then. She surely didn't have happy childhood.

Young, stubborn, and didn't have much love. Her aunt didn't treat her like her own child, which she went against the will. :roll:

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hello again:)

Postby LadyMacbeth » Sat Sep 02, 2006 4:27 pm

It's up to how you interpret it.


Exactedly! I will reread with attention the last chapter of this book in original version.
However I have to admit I really like my idea of Jane Tyre. Why? Because she got out of the coach on the moors (without her bag that was left inside) cause she didn't have money to pay for! Thus she met her cousins that she had to pay some money of the will she inherited. Otherwise she didn't have to divide it with anyone and in her life was noone but Rochester who was worthy of thinking about him.

When she found him at last (he went to him by coach again) he was blind and without one hand. Thus he was quite OK to marry Jane and be happy with her.

or I don't know...

Young, stubborn, and didn't have much love.


Well.. actually I found the part with voices calling Jane across the moor. In fact - there is something like in the book. I wonder, however, if it is probably. But yes - it is. Blind, crippled, poor Rochester calling for Jane Eyre across the moor.

Whom you would chose Lennye - if I can ask you?
St John or Rochester?
Or ...someone/something else. For example lonely travel to India?

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Re: hello again:)

Postby MissLT » Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:02 pm

LadyMacbeth wrote:
Whom you would chose Lennye - if I can ask you?
St John or Rochester?
Or ...someone/something else. For example lonely travel to India?

Of course, I'd pick Rochester. I would pick him over St. John in any day of the week, that's for sure.

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hmmm

Postby LadyMacbeth » Sun Sep 03, 2006 10:28 am

I am not so sure. As deals "Jane Eyre" I would travel to India on my own. In my level 2 is very little about St John. Anyway in my country women rather cannot marry clergymen and the last are rather rich. I mean surely richer than protestant clergymen. But catholics have also better churches. I mean richer churches. Protestants took away all things from churches into their homes. I don't like protestant churches at all.
And this Rochester... bigamist with a child whose real story he tried to hide from his future wife... oh - in my age I would surely go into India on my own.
I would have very few hopes that Rochester will be a good man in future. Specially when he will recover.

You know - he should have divorced the mad woman in the attic when he never loved her. It would be probably more honest than keeping her in cage instaed of trying to treat.

Thus she tried to make him dead so many times. And she was right I think. And at last she ruined his beautiful house.

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Re: hmmm

Postby MissLT » Mon Sep 04, 2006 2:45 am

LadyMacbeth wrote:I am not so sure. As deals "Jane Eyre" I would travel to India on my own.

India trip was up in the air only because John wanted to go there, and he wanted her to go with him, not as a sister or cousin but as his wife. She had to travel on the mission with his as his wife or stay home, no other choice.

LadyMacbeth wrote: In my level 2 is very little about St John.

What's the big difference between the original work and the level you're reading? I think your English is well enough to read the original work. You should give it a try. :wink:

LadyMacbeth wrote:oh - in my age I would surely go into India on my own.

You should. My grandma's friend went there and she loved it. She said the country was soooooo beautiful and different. It's nothing like a Third World country, and yet it's nothing like a Westernized country. The people are religious but humble. The food is great. Okay, I think I should stop before I sound like I've been there already :lol: :lol: .

LadyMacbeth wrote:I would have very few hopes that Rochester will be a good man in future. Specially when he will recover.

To me, he was the same man before and after he got blind and handicapped, his love for her stayed the same.

LadyMacbeth wrote:You know - he should have divorced the mad woman in the attic when he never loved her. It would be probably more honest than keeping her in cage instaed of trying to treat.

This story happened in the 18 century, you know. I believe at that time people still didn't really recognize divorce. I mean, up till now the Catholic Church still doesn't really recognize divorce. My boyfriend's mom has been divorced with his dad for years, but she still carries his last name and didn't bother to change back to her maiden last name. I asked him why, and he told me she got used to it. Besides, even though they're are divorced, but under God, they're still one, he said.

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money

Postby LadyMacbeth » Mon Sep 04, 2006 1:15 pm

She had to travel on the mission with his as his wife or stay home, no other choice.


But later she inherited some money so she could go there on her own as I think. If she wanted. 20 thousand pounds were enough to pay for that travel.

I think your English is well enough to read full version. You should give it a try.

My English depends on many factors et. hurry, time of day, general mood, level of concentration and attention. If these al elements work well - my English is civil. If now - it is bit...horrible:)
Like...a story about Count Dracula from Transylvania:)

The people are religious but humble. The food is great.


Many English books have Hindu plots. But very few things about religion there. And about Hindu food too!:(

To me, he was the same man before and after he got blind and handicapped, his love for her stayed the same.


Yes - but first he had had to take off the mask/the disguise he liked. All in all it was easy cause everyone could see he was blind and without one hand. Isn't it a symbolic situation somehow?
:roll: :roll: :roll:

My boyfriend's mom has been divorced with his dad for years, but she still carries his last name and didn't bother to change back to her maiden last name.


I would change it back. Though I am not sure. If she had loved him she hadn't chnaged it. Doesn't it look like this?

Cheers,
LM

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Re: money

Postby MissLT » Mon Sep 04, 2006 2:58 pm

LadyMacbeth wrote:But later she inherited some money so she could go there on her own as I think. If she wanted. 20 thousand pounds were enough to pay for that travel.

Yeah, you can say that, but I don't really bother to go into that much detail. I mean, if that was the case, I might as well think how she intimated with a blind man and crippled hannds because the author said they had a child afterwards. :lol: :lol:

LadyMacbeth wrote:My English depends on many factors et. hurry, time of day, general mood, level of concentration and attention. If these al elements work well - my English is civil. If now - it is bit...horrible:)
Like...a story about Count Dracula from Transylvania:)

If you could beat these distractions, I think you should give it a try. Trust me, your English is well enough to comprehend the original one.

LadyMacbeth wrote:Many English books have Hindu plots. But very few things about religion there. And about Hindu food too!:(

I also haven't read anything that really talks about India except a mention of it. For example, a trip to India like in this novel; that's it, nothing else. Maybe I'll check it with the librarian to see what she would recommend. I'll tell you about it if it turns out nice.

LadyMacbeth wrote:Yes - but first he had had to take off the mask/the disguise he liked. All in all it was easy cause everyone could see he was blind and without one hand. Isn't it a symbolic situation somehow?
:roll: :roll: :roll:

Yes, it is. He was cruel to his own wife if you judge him based on today's standards. However, he did try to save her when she was trying to kill him, which proved he did not love her, yet he cared about her as a human being. Can't you give him some credits for this act?


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