Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 7:49 am
all i know about bible is just:
it will tell you the truth and the way of eternal life in the name of Jesus christ...
it will tell you the truth and the way of eternal life in the name of Jesus christ...
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Good for you.andes wrote:all i know about bible is just:
it will tell you the truth and the way of eternal life in the name of Jesus christ...
Oh boy, you really need a bible to do that? The bible was written by a bunch of blokes. It's not a book, it's a collection of writings. These writings were chosen because someone happened to like those ones. The others were ignored because he didn't like those.all i know about bible is just:
it will tell you the truth and the way of eternal life in the name of Jesus christ...
I don't believe in it, but you do. Thus, good for you.andes wrote:should be good for all..
Is it enough just to believe in something? Many people commit atrocious acts because they believe in the reason.LennyeTran Wrote: I don't believe in it, but you do. Thus, good for you.
wowowow!! can this be reffered to orthodox christianity?? I am not religious but can't keep silent when... I can Is it so important - all our believes and religions? does it really matter? you are a young and nice girl why to put you mind full of that religions and so on? :?Lalee wrote: If people would read it, they wouldn't believe in lies like Virgin Mary or they wouldn't hang pictures of so- called "saints" on their walls, lit candles and pray to them. That's just silly and nonsense.
It doesn't matter if I'm young or old. It just bugs me when people follow others without knowing if what they're following is right or not.Tora wrote: wowowow!! can this be reffered to orthodox christianity?? I am not religious but can't keep silent when... I can Is it so important - all our believes and religions? does it really matter? you are a young and nice girl why to put you mind full of that religions and so on? :?
Wow!!! How odd!! I'm Catholic and we're( my family and Venezuelan) are not like that!!! My parents used to be like those in ur country but they realized that it wasn't good.We're still Catholic, but we don't believe in those Idols :? I know some do that and I don't understand, I mean, I don't get why Catholicism adopted that belief! :(Lalee wrote:It doesn't matter if I'm young or old. It just bugs me when people follow others without knowing if what they're following is right or not.Tora wrote: wowowow!! can this be reffered to orthodox christianity?? I am not religious but can't keep silent when... I can Is it so important - all our believes and religions? does it really matter? you are a young and nice girl why to put you mind full of that religions and so on? :?
For instance, catholics here like to pray to idols which are statues of dead people called saints. Why don't they pray to God instead of those idols? Isn't God powerful enough to help them? They think they're true believers but there they are worshipping false gods.
Now if they read the bible, they would know that their church follows lots of beliefs the Bible is against.
Same thing for Buddhists who worship Buddha statues and do all kinda praying. I don't think it's nonsense, though. It's just a way to show your respect. Whatever fits you!Lalee wrote: For instance, catholics here like to pray to idols which are statues of dead people called saints. Why don't they pray to God instead of those idols? Isn't God powerful enough to help them? They think they're true believers but there they are worshipping false gods.
Now if they read the bible, they would know that their church follows lots of beliefs the Bible is against.
I don't understand either, Oriani.Oriani wrote: Wow!!! How odd!! I'm Catholic and we're( my family and Venezuelan) are not like that!!! My parents used to be like those in ur country but they realized that it wasn't good.We're still Catholic, but we don't believe in those Idols :? I know some do that and I don't understand, I mean, I don't get why Catholicism adopted that belief! :(
I don't really know much about Buddhism so I can't say much about it. I guess they have a book they follow as well that's similar to the Bible?LennyeTran wrote: Same thing for Buddhists who worship Buddha statues and do all kinda praying. I don't think it's nonsense, though. It's just a way to show your respect. Whatever fits you!
Your teacher might be right but it really depends on the type of religion they're into.LennyeTran wrote: Last time, we had a huge argument in our world religions class about Muslims who chanted to hang the guys who did the caricatures. My teacher said one of the differences between a Buddhist, a Christian, and a Muslim is the way they show their worship. Even within each religion, there are people who worship in different ways.
Let me ask you something, would people know all the things they know already about God if they hadn't read the Bible?Tora wrote:I always thought that religion is a descreet agreement between you and god you worship - not the best "description" but still... why do you care about other people? follow your way and reach Heaven or whateverelse, but you can't make the world catholics and christian change! I have never read bible from cover to cover - I don't feel embarassed or something - I don't need it at this very moment - and it is my own business... like it is their own business to pray to god mary-not-vergin or idols
everyone has his own way to god
Yes, I go to Chruch every Sunday, but fortunately me and my family don't believe such Idols! We recognize that Mary was Jesus's mom and about the Angel who told her about the baby. That's O.K; but those Saints and so on??? I don't like it.I mean, ok, they were good people when they were alive, but I don't understand why they have to be Saints and we have to pray them. Some people say that I'm not a good Catholic because of that, but why not?? I do Believe in Jesus Christ and God, I think is the most important thing. But I do love being Catholic and I respect it!!! :PLalee wrote:I don't understand either, Oriani.Oriani wrote: Wow!!! How odd!! I'm Catholic and we're( my family and Venezuelan) are not like that!!! My parents used to be like those in ur country but they realized that it wasn't good.We're still Catholic, but we don't believe in those Idols :? I know some do that and I don't understand, I mean, I don't get why Catholicism adopted that belief! :(
The only thing I know is that they have strange beliefs.
So I guess you go to church every Sunday, right? What's the first thing you see when you enter? Here most churches are scary, full of a bunch of statues.
The weirdest thing about Catholicism is that they worship Mary more than God. Why would I want to worship a woman who was just like me? The only difference between me and her is that she got chosen. She didn't remain virgin all her life so she was just a regular woman who got God's blessing and that's it.
I agree hereLalee wrote: Let me ask you something, would people know all the things they know already about God if they hadn't read the Bible?
I don't think they would.
Lalee wrote:Now, Christians have a mission. They're supposed to share the Gospel to others and show them the right path.
I guess that every religion is based on some morality - this is the basis of people behavior. here is a quote from a book (after Somerset Maugham) I found not so long time ago - it coincides with my opinion completelyLalee wrote:If someone is wrong about something, aren't you supposed to tell them that? They don't try to change anything. The only thing they do is letting people know that the way they believe in God is not according to what the Bible says. Now if they say they have their own way to believe in things, now that would be called stubbornness.
If they call themselves Christians, they wouldn't think that way because their beliefs are based on the Bible.
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... You have thrown aside a creed, but you have preserved the ethic which was based upon it. To all intents you are a Christian still, and if there is a God in Heaven you will undoubtedly receive your reward. The Almighty can hardly be such a fool as the churches make out. If you keep His laws I don't think He can care a packet of pins whether you believe in Him or not...
not at all (my turn to turn red :P )Oriani wrote:Perfect. Tora! :P
Hahaha did u see? It's easy to get blushed :PTora wrote:not at all (my turn to turn red :P )Oriani wrote:Perfect. Tora! :P
So you love being catholic even when there are some things you disagree on? Isn't that odd?Oriani wrote: Yes, I go to Chruch every Sunday, but fortunately me and my family don't believe such Idols! We recognize that Mary was Jesus's mom and about the Angel who told her about the baby. That's O.K; but those Saints and so on??? I don't like it.I mean, ok, they were good people when they were alive, but I don't understand why they have to be Saints and we have to pray them. Some people say that I'm not a good Catholic because of that, but why not?? I do Believe in Jesus Christ and God, I think is the most important thing. But I do love being Catholic and I respect it!!! :P
Bunch of books, not just one like the Bible.Lalee wrote:I don't really know much about Buddhism so I can't say much about it. I guess they have a book they follow as well that's similar to the Bible?LennyeTran wrote: Same thing for Buddhists who worship Buddha statues and do all kinda praying. I don't think it's nonsense, though. It's just a way to show your respect. Whatever fits you!
But the Bible was written by men!!! For example, we know God doesn't like killing, but Christians believe in the Judgement Day. And the Bible says believe in Jesus Christ, for you'll be saved. However, what if a person who doesn't believe in Jesus Christ but a nice person and a person who believes in him but is a murder, who would be saved?Lalee wrote:Your teacher might be right but it really depends on the type of religion they're into.
Catholics and Christians both believe in the Bible, right? Now if in the Bible says that God does not like it when people worship other false gods, idols or whatever we want to call them...Why do they still do it? Isn't that stupid?
I don't know. I asked Chris and he said it's more about respect than worshipping. Same like you respect Mother Teresa.Lalee wrote:
The weirdest thing about Catholicism is that they worship Mary more than God. Why would I want to worship a woman who was just like me? The only difference between me and her is that she got chosen. She didn't remain virgin all her life so she was just a regular woman who got God's blessing and that's it.
Not exactly. God had to use men to write it. I don't think He has hands to do it Himself. :)LennyeTran wrote: But the Bible was written by men!!!
LennyeTran wrote: For example, we know God doesn't like killing, but Christians believe in the Judgement Day. And the Bible says believe in Jesus Christ, for you'll be saved. However, what if a person who doesn't believe in Jesus Christ but a nice person and a person who believes in him but is a murder, who would be saved?
Well to me, what they do with Mary is called worship. They even dare call her "Mother of God" Like, what the heck is that?LennyeTran wrote: I don't know. I asked Chris and he said it's more about respect than worshipping. Same like you respect Mother Teresa.
I know what you mean but God doesn't care much what your point of view is. It sounds kind of selfish but how can we know the way we think it's right or not? How can we be 100% of that? I think He knows better than us.Tora wrote: this is just for me when I think about praying, visiting church and all that kind of stuff true christians are supposed to do (or not supposed to according to the bible) - if you follow god's law you are true christian and not matter how you pray and how you cross yourself
Permission to laugh, please? One question, how does God look like to you?Lalee wrote:Not exactly. God had to use men to write it. I don't think He has hands to do it Himself. :)LennyeTran wrote: But the Bible was written by men!!!
It seems like that to me, but respect can be seen as worshipping when it comes to religions. In Vietnamese, Virgin Mary is Me Maria or Me Dong Trinh (Virgin). They called her Me (Mother) Thien Chua (Jesus Christ) (Mother of Jesus Christ if you translated it). I don't know about English version. I have to ask Chris.Lalee wrote:Well to me, what they do with Mary is called worship. They even dare call her "Mother of God" Like, what the heck is that?LennyeTran wrote: I don't know. I asked Chris and he said it's more about respect than worshipping. Same like you respect Mother Teresa.
Yours and my cousin's and Chris's explanation are different. According to my cousin and Chris, the one who killed and believed in Jesus Christ won't be forgiven of sins; therefore, denied Heaven. The nice person who didn't believe in Jesus Christ would go to hell and would be saved to Heaven when he acknowledged Jesus Christ. They both ended up in hell for their own sins.Lalee wrote: Although what I'm about to say might sound unfair, it's the truth. The murderer would be saved.
God only accepts the ones who believe in His son, Jesus. To him we are the same. All human beings have good and bad sides so there's really not much difference to God.
To Him, there's only one way for people to go to heaven and that's Jesus.
You said both of them were criminals though. Not one of them was nice and one was not and the unkind person got saved because he acknowledged Jesus as a savior.Lalee wrote:
The same goes with the story in Luke 23 about two criminals who were sentenced to death like Jesus was. Both of them were criminals and deserved to die on the cross but only one got saved. Did he do a good deed? Was he a good person? Only one of them recognized Jesus as the saviour by asking Jesus to remember him when He comes into His kingdom and we can see he got saved when Jesus told him that this criminal was going to be with Him in paradise.
Also there are more stories like these ones where God shows us that trying to be a good person will not lead us to heaven.
So we can conclude that going to heaven does not depend on our good deeds or how nice people we are.
I thought Jesus came to save us from sin and hell.LennyeTran wrote: Yours and my cousin's and Chris's explanation are different. According to my cousin and Chris, the one who killed and believed in Jesus Christ won't be forgiven of sins; therefore, denied Heaven.
LennyeTran wrote: The nice person who didn't believe in Jesus Christ would go to hell and would be saved to Heaven when he acknowledged Jesus Christ. They both ended up in hell for their own sins.
Uh huh so... what's your point?LennyeTran wrote: You said both of them were criminals though. Not one of them was nice and one was not and the unkind person got saved because he acknowledged Jesus as a savior.
If you believe in Jesus Christ; hence, you would believe in his teaching. This is what they mean. And if you believe in his teaching, why would you go against it to kill others? They say you can't fake your way out to heaven by just saying you've acknowledged when you won't follow his teaching afterwards.Lalee wrote:I thought Jesus came to save us from sin and hell.LennyeTran wrote: Yours and my cousin's and Chris's explanation are different. According to my cousin and Chris, the one who killed and believed in Jesus Christ won't be forgiven of sins; therefore, denied Heaven.
So now if the murderer believed and still goes to hell..what's the point in believing in Jesus'death??
I'm sorry, I don't quite understand. :?Lalee wrote:Ask them this question, if Jesus came to this earth to save us from sin, what role do we play in that sacrifice? I mean, if God says we're saved through Christ, what else is left to do?
When he went to hell, then he would realize there was hell and heaven and there was the presence of Jesus Christ and his mind would be enlighted. Thus, when he acknowledged Jesus Christ and his teaching, he'll go to heaven.Lalee wrote:LennyeTran wrote: The nice person who didn't believe in Jesus Christ would go to hell and would be saved to Heaven when he acknowledged Jesus Christ. They both ended up in hell for their own sins.
he would go to hell and would be saved to heaven? How can someone go to hell and then go to heaven?
Yes, both of them sinned but there's one difference between them. One believed and they other didn't. Salvation is about believing and faith rather than doing something.
It doesn't look like my example. DUH, slow-ee.Lalee wrote:Uh huh so... what's your point?LennyeTran wrote: You said both of them were criminals though. Not one of them was nice and one was not and the unkind person got saved because he acknowledged Jesus as a savior.
Exactly! That's what I said to my cousin, and she said it's a wrong interpretation. Believing in Christ is a semi-guarantee ticket for you to be in heaven; however, you have to follow his teaching. Oherwise, you're just a common sinner.jeffcox wrote: Why be good at all? I mean, you can be as evil and terrible as you want to be throughout your life, then at the moment you meet God, you just beg his forgiveness and BINGO, freeway to heaven.
I knew you were going to laugh.LennyeTran wrote: Permission to laugh, please? One question, how does God look like to you?
You're contagious.LennyeTran wrote: It doesn't look like my example. DUH, slow-ee.
Have you seen him in your mind?Lalee wrote:I knew you were going to laugh.LennyeTran wrote: Permission to laugh, please? One question, how does God look like to you?
What does God look like to me?
Well he definitely doesn't look like a human being. There's a part in the Bible that describes Him a little bit.
Revelation 4
2And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.
3And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.
Hehehehhee my cousin explained to me about that example, and it did not look like mine by the way. You'd better get another one. 8)Lalee wrote:You're contagious.LennyeTran wrote: It doesn't look like my example. DUH, slow-ee.
I'll look for a better example then.
Yes, they're right. That's why I was going to say something when you gave me the example including the murderer. If someone gets saved and knows what Jesus did for them, he or she just can't be around killing people and be like, "hey, Jesus died for me and washed all my sins away so I can do the hell I want now" NO! It doesn't work that way.LennyeTran wrote: If you believe in Jesus Christ; hence, you would believe in his teaching. This is what they mean. And if you believe in his teaching, why would you go against it to kill others? They say you can't fake your way out to heaven by just saying you've acknowledged when you won't follow his teaching afterwards.
OK I sense that your cousin and Chris think that people need to do good to go to heaven. If the answer is yes, why did Jesus die for them? Is it better now?LennyeTran wrote: I'm sorry, I don't quite understand. :?
Umm... this is weird.LennyeTran wrote: When he went to hell, then he would realize there was hell and heaven and there was the presence of Jesus Christ and his mind would be enlighted. Thus, when he acknowledged Jesus Christ and his teaching, he'll go to heaven.
From what I see a nice person is a half Christian because that person does nice things for others. Is it a big deal if someone believes in Jesus Christ or not? I mean, if one believed in him and went against his teaching, that person would be even worst than the one who didn't believe in him, right?Lalee wrote:Yes, they're right. That's why I was going to say something when you gave me the example including the murderer. If someone gets saved and knows what Jesus did for them, he or she just can't be around killing people and be like, "hey, Jesus died for me and washed all my sins away so I can do the hell I want now" NO! It doesn't work that way.LennyeTran wrote: If you believe in Jesus Christ; hence, you would believe in his teaching. This is what they mean. And if you believe in his teaching, why would you go against it to kill others? They say you can't fake your way out to heaven by just saying you've acknowledged when you won't follow his teaching afterwards.
They said Jesus died for humans to understand they are sinners and need to repent of your sins and ask for forgiveness.Lalee wrote:OK I sense that your cousin and Chris think that people need to do good to go to heaven. If the answer is yes, why did Jesus die for them? Is it better now?LennyeTran wrote: I'm sorry, I don't quite understand. :?
I'm a Christian and I don't do nice things but I know what you mean. You're talking about following Jesus's teaching. Since he did good while he was here, his followers have to do the same thing as well, no?LennyeTran wrote: From what I see a nice person is a half Christian because that person does nice things for others. Is it a big deal if someone believes in Jesus Christ or not? I mean, if one believed in him and went against his teaching, that person would be even worst than the one who didn't believe in him, right?
OK I've got a good one.LennyeTran wrote: Hehehehhee my cousin explained to me about that example, and it did not look like mine by the way. You'd better get another one. 8)
Moses' Law is what makes people understand they're sinners not Jesus' death.LennyeTran wrote: They said Jesus died for humans to understand they are sinners and need to repent of your sins and ask for forgiveness.
I find it a bit contradictory. According to my cousin and Chris, Jesus was born because humans were in the path towards Satan instead of God. They thought they were better than God. They had no conscience. And they felt no remorse. Thus, God promised one would be saved if that person believed in Christ and followed his teaching.Lalee wrote: So Christianity is not about being nice but believing in Jesus' sacrifice and follow a life depending on the Lord and understanding His will in our lives.
Uh huh.LennyeTran wrote: Thus, God promised one would be saved if that person believed in Christ and followed his teaching.
LennyeTran wrote: If one understood his teaching and his sacrifice, then one should be nice others because that's what his teaching is all about, isn't it?
Where does it say in the Bible that we can ask for forgiveness on the Judgement Day?LennyeTran wrote: If one understood all these above and couldn't be nice to others, how would it work? Isn't it a hypocritical thought? I mean, "yeah, I understand his teaching, but do I have to be nice because I'm just a human being?" And then one ends up not being nice. Then ask for forgiveness on the Judgement Day because they understand why Jesus was here on earth?!?!?!?!?!??!!?