Virginity

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Seafarer
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Postby Seafarer » Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:39 pm

and if you won't give your husband this value you talk about, why will you marry him??DON'T say for love ..about"obey rules" I don't see a relation between the two things virginty doesn't force you to any thing :o
don't you agree?? :D[/quote]

huuuh,why will not my husband give me that value? i don't have to be a virgin if his only aim is just to find a virgin girl and to marry with her.

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Postby MissLT » Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:50 pm

ahmedgamal wrote:
LennyeTran wrote:
ahmedgamal wrote:verginity is really important to believe in your life partner ,and it's important for women more and that because: that make your husband resbect you more in addition to self-resbect .........yes you must take experience by study or learning or from your parents.and if you don't care for your dignity How can I -as a man- care about it- Imean your dignity-???.............that's my opinion :)

Double standard!!!!! :roll:

what do you really mean? :?: :? are you agree or not? my english not very very well :D


A notorious type of double standard is the classic "studs vs. sluts" model, in which a man who has sex with many female partners is considered a "stud" or "player" (which are often considered compliments), while a woman who has sex with many male partners is considered a "slut" or "skank" (which are highly pejorative terms). This is related to the madonna-whore dichotomy (also called the virgin-whore dichotomy). Proponents of this double standard would say that it is justified by natural law (men naturally cannot help it but women can and are thus supposed to function as the "gatekeepers"), while opponents would say that such an assumption is sexist and based on outmoded views of sexuality. Opponents may differ with one another; some feel that nonmonogamy and/or promiscuity is a good thing for both sexes, some feel it is wrong for both sexes, and others are simply view it as neutral. Some believe this double standard is gradually breaking down, citing neologisms such as "playette" (a female "player") and "man-slut" (a man who sleeps around). Gender-neutral terms such as "free lover", "free spirit", or "libertine" may also be used as well nowadays. However, skeptics argue that the use of such reversed and gender-neutral terms remains relatively rare. For example, the term "man-slut" appears on Google with less than one percent the frequency of either "slut" or "whore."

Double Standard

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Postby Elba » Tue Aug 22, 2006 10:30 pm

Lenny, this is your best participation! I admire you! tellme can I get that book ad Amazone, give me the complete reference.

About virginity: Boys virginity mean: respect, dignity, etc.
I only want to remember something:
Time: beginin of XX Century
Topic: Virginity
All men were looking for virgyn women to marry her. Some women aren´t virgin, but they want to marry him. Then women use a method. Until the first night with the housband the used to spread blood of animal on the bed after the sexual relation, and shout until sexual act, in order the housband belive she was suffering the classic acke of a women when the Imen broke. With the blood they -women- use to seams the propoer blood.
The anatomy studies haven´t discover that there are different kinds of Imen, one of the has the characteristic of BOT BLOOD.

Questions: How do you going to discover if you wife is really virgin or, like women at the biginning of XX century, are simulate they are virgins???????
:?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:

and then Where will be the dignity you are searching??????????
:?: :?: :?: :?: :?:

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for all

Postby ahmedgamal » Thu Aug 24, 2006 8:43 am

I seem to have a full of work day......ok I accebt to deal with you all but frist I want to make sure that
1- we will be frinds even in case of disagree
2- we will respect each other opinion and If my opinion is wrong, I wish you keep persuade me untill it be correct
3- you don't imagine me as a man come of ignorance age as lennye said
I want to say that I enter here for making frinds at firest and remember that if it wasn't me, you wouldn't find an opinion to criticize so I'm important here :) :D :lol:

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ahmedgamal
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Postby ahmedgamal » Thu Aug 24, 2006 9:54 am

could it be just a sign of claiming an ownership of her body? When you make love with her for the firs time you feel possessive and powerful, right?
if virginty is a valuable value why will you give it to someone don't deserve it nor you -I mean a man of a short relationship you know he will leave you- ..while you ban it for the person who will stay with you forever for love that doesn't seem logical ."ownership of your body"you mustn't think that way the matter isn't who own the other but how you both can deal with each other to form a fram where you both can live a happy life.
and if he own you that will be because you have a weak personality not because you are virgin.
concerning"feel powerful" I'm still virgin however I don't think so because all what I feel in this moment is pleasure and I think blood make me feel disgusted not powerful.........who want to own your body is the person who decieve you untill having sex then leave you because he take what he need; not the man who is your lovely life partner..

Because jumping into marriage before knowing each other is foolish
I didn't say"before knowing each other"you must surely know him firest..
don’t forget we all have been born from same action so its better we respect sex and its foundations more than this, its part of the bases of every healthy live…
you needn't tell me how sex is important I respect sex more than you so I don't have it without marriage if it wasn't sex it wouldn't be life sex is like water and air for humans but that doesn't mean it havn't conditions...
I will marry to a man because I LOVE him, that’s all, what else should I want from him?

I mean with my questation that if you really love him you won't leave him for just he didn't make you very happy in having sex ,will you?any problem,,you will seek to fix it not by leaving and if he cann't have sex-you mean what I know-you can knew about it before marriage by medicale examins.....if the marriage fail that will be because you both aren't suitable for each other at firest and it maybe maybe maybe for sexual reasons at second...did you see? :D

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Postby ahmedgamal » Thu Aug 24, 2006 10:10 am

huuuh,why will not my husband give me that value? i don't have to be a virgin if his only aim is just to find a virgin girl and to marry with her
very very nice question :D my reply is:
all what I said about women ,you can say about men I mean that men also should be virgins and as for me I looking for a good manners girl....the good manners girl at almost times will be virgin-at least in my soicity-........so I won't marry a woman just because she is virgin....but I will marry the virgin women I love ........did you get what I getting at? :D

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Postby ahmedgamal » Thu Aug 24, 2006 10:51 am

Double standard!!!!!
remember that I'm still trainer I am not sure that I understand all what you mean but what I understand is enough to hurt my feelings-ok I will let it pass- but stop think of me as a ignorant man come of outdated age I have an opinion and you should respect it..even if it's wrong. this a matter of opinions you must take account of difference between cultures.........anyway..........as I said before: men also should be virgins. if a man have sex without marriage, it will be wrong too.........I'm a man who want to marry a virgin woman and if I was a woman, I would love to marry a virgin man........... is that clear? :D :)

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Postby ahmedgamal » Thu Aug 24, 2006 11:09 am

Questions: How do you going to discover if you wife is really virgin or, like women at the biginning of XX century, are simulate they are virgins???????
:?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:

and then Where will be the dignity you are searching??????????
:?: :?: :?: :?:
:lol: :lol: :lol:
you make me laugh you have a very nice style to show your point
anyway I think medicale examines can solve this problem and I said that I looking for a good manners girl not that kind of women you talk about...........and I wonder how can thus women use this blood didn't they feel disgust .what you say seems not logical...anyway that's a matter of trust

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Postby Anahita » Thu Aug 24, 2006 12:08 pm

First lets take a look at my pervious post...

Well, I understand your point and it can be true (about self respect part I mean), but as far as I know and according to my knowledge, today oriental men are using of women's virginity as a factor for controlling them. For making them obey the rules and for stabling their own positing in family as the father/god role. Virginity is not a social factor which offering people an special value, its just a personal choice (like in my own situation). And I think its kind of selfish from men to ask of women such a value while they themselves are free to act and live as the way they want, don’t you agree?


And its what you have said...

if virginty is a valuable value why will you give it to someone don't deserve it nor you -I mean a man of a short relationship you know he will leave you- ..while you ban it for the person who will stay with you forever for love that doesn't seem logical .


When did I say Virginity is a value? Read my post first before jumping into conclusions. I said it’s a personal choice, nothing more, nothing less! And since it’s a personal choice I can do whatever I want with it and its nobody's business. Did I make myself clear?

ownership of your body"you mustn't think that way the matter isn't who own the other but how you both can deal with each other to form a fram where you both can live a happy life.
and if he own you that will be because you have a weak personality not because you are virgin.


Aww, what a dreamy picture, yeah, a man and woman who respecting each other and some how miraculously they can survive regardless the primitive rules of their marriage condition which have been written mostly for the sake of men!! Buddy, when the social/religious rules have been arranged in a way that your body is being considered as your husband's property, like his car or home, these ideal dream pictures don’t work that much for a woman who should obeys the rules or loses her social respect/positon or even her head!

And having a strong personality only helps you to survive during the hard times but for changing this situation you need some thing more than your own strengths, like a bit of luck for having some one who can shows you the ropes for surviving otherwise you will be wasted. I am not sexist but I believe you should be a woman to understand what I am saying.

who want to own your body is the person who decieve you untill having sex then leave you because he take what he need; not the man who is your lovely life partner..


True but so what? no matter if this man is my long life partner or not, when a man insists on virginity in fact he looks at women as a tool, a piece of meat that he can claims the ownership of it by doing sex with it. obsessed by these sick idea's has been written all over his personality!! then why he should be so eager to be the first one who is doing it? why its so important for him if he doesnt care about my body but my own real self? virgin or not, I am still the same person and I say a man who only wants me for my virginity can goes and hangs himself from the first tree in the road!

I didn't say"before knowing each other"you must surely know him firest..


Really? Okie, fine, lets take a look at your next lines.

you needn't tell me how sex is important I respect sex more than you so I don't have it without marriage if it wasn't sex it wouldn't be life sex is like water and air for humans but that doesn't mean it havn't conditions...


Interesting, you are saying sex is important and should be respected. fine, now with considering this fact, basically you have approved my idea about knowing your partner before marrying with her, sexually. cause if you don’t know her FIRST how do you want to marry her and if sex is forbidden before marriage practically you cant know her from this angle. Don’t you feel a little contradictory in your statements? Buddy you're ignoring an important part of your girl's personality by doing this and be sure you will regret it later in your marriage. And of curse sex has its own condition, and you wont know about it until you do it.
By the way, marriage is just a legal bond between two persons, it doesn’t create Love or Life. Don’t count on it that much since many marriages are like a business partnerships and nothing more. Love is different and don’t need any approval from any attorney or religious clergyman.

I mean with my questation that if you really love him you won't leave him for just he didn't make you very happy in having sex ,will you?any problem,,you will seek to fix it not by leaving and if he cann't have sex-you mean what I know-you can knew about it before marriage by medicale examins.....if the marriage fail that will be because you both aren't suitable for each other at firest and it maybe maybe maybe for sexual reasons at second...did you see?



Sorry, I really don’t get what you are saying here. maybe its me but from all I can understand from these lines, I can say, exactly for this reason you should know your partner before marriage so you can be sure he/she is capable of granting your desires both mentally and physically. If such a problems that you said happen later, it’s a personal decision to stay with your partner or not and not a matter of judgment for others. That’s all.

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Postby MissLT » Thu Aug 24, 2006 5:53 pm

ahmedgamal wrote:
Double standard!!!!!
remember that I'm still trainer I am not sure that I understand all what you mean but what I understand is enough to hurt my feelings-ok I will let it pass- but stop think of me as a ignorant man come of outdated age I have an opinion and you should respect it..even if it's wrong. this a matter of opinions you must take account of difference between cultures.........anyway..........as I said before: men also should be virgins. if a man have sex without marriage, it will be wrong too.........I'm a man who want to marry a virgin woman and if I was a woman, I would love to marry a virgin man........... is that clear? :D :)

In your previous post you said something about self-respect, dignity, etc. to show how a maiden should keep her virginity. And I replied it was a double standard because to me it was. You only wanted what benefited you. It seemed like to me you knew nothing about woman's body. Intercourse is not the only way a girl would lose her virginity. Is dignity, pride, self-respect, etc. only counted by a girl's virginity?!?!?!?!? What age are we living, I may ask?

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Postby vince90 » Thu Aug 24, 2006 6:53 pm

ahmedgamal wrote:
Questions: How do you going to discover if you wife is really virgin or, like women at the biginning of XX century, are simulate they are virgins???????
:?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:

and then Where will be the dignity you are searching??????????
:?: :?: :?: :?:
:lol: :lol: :lol:
you make me laugh you have a very nice style to show your point
anyway I think medicale examines can solve this problem and I said that I looking for a good manners girl not that kind of women you talk about...........and I wonder how can thus women use this blood didn't they feel disgust .what you say seems not logical...anyway that's a matter of trust


So you will have the doctor to check her out before you marry her? :shock:

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Postby Anahita » Thu Aug 24, 2006 7:02 pm

vince90 wrote:

So you will have the doctor to check her out before you marry her? :shock:


yeah, i think its exactly what he meant. its how most of Muslim men are treating their bride. they take her to a doctor to check her for being virgin before marriage, like a farmer who takes a cattle to vet before buying it, then only after approving her virginity they are going to marry her. I have seen such a thing many times and i found it disgusting and humiliating :evil: . some times I am wondering is there a medical way for knowing is a man is really virgin or not and how men are going to respond if we ask the same treatment about virginity from them, just wondering... :roll:

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Postby ahmedgamal » Thu Aug 24, 2006 7:23 pm

now I am very very sad :cry: all of you ignore my post about being friends.... :cry: .....I will reply your posts but after you reply my post about being friends...I will be very sad if you all ignore my post again...will you care about my feelings or not? that's my only question for now :roll:

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Postby Dixie » Thu Aug 24, 2006 7:36 pm

Anahita wrote:
yeah, i think its exactly what he meant. its how most of Muslim men are treating their bride. they take her to a doctor to check her for being virgin before marriage, like a farmer who takes a cattle to vet before buying it, then only after approving her virginity they are going to marry her. I have seen such a thing many times and i found it disgusting and humiliating :evil: . some times I am wondering is there a medical way for knowing is a man is really virgin or not and how men are going to respond if we ask the same treatment about virginity from them, just wondering... :roll:


Exactly! It's humiliating, and I don't think those men love their brides AT ALL. I can't understand why women allow their men to treat them like that. Have they no dignity?

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Postby Anahita » Thu Aug 24, 2006 7:58 pm

Dixie wrote:
Anahita wrote:
yeah, i think its exactly what he meant. its how most of Muslim men are treating their bride. they take her to a doctor to check her for being virgin before marriage, like a farmer who takes a cattle to vet before buying it, then only after approving her virginity they are going to marry her. I have seen such a thing many times and i found it disgusting and humiliating :evil: . some times I am wondering is there a medical way for knowing is a man is really virgin or not and how men are going to respond if we ask the same treatment about virginity from them, just wondering... :roll:


Exactly! It's humiliating, and I don't think those men love their brides AT ALL. I can't understand why women allow their men to treat them like that. Have they no dignity?


You are totally right Dixie, those men who are looking like a piece of meat at their women have no real love for them. And if they care about their wives some times Its some thing like how you care about your car and other posses. they don’t put themselves in trouble for knowing and understanding their women personality or feelings cause they don’t treat them as an equal humans. women are good as long as they can be a good cook and can satisfy your sexual needs in bedroom! This is slavery for god sake not marriage!! :evil:

And most of the girls who are from traditional families have been manipulated mentally by their parents to never stand against the traditions and always be what this guy is calling A GOOD MANNER GIRL, which means in other words BE A STUPID SEX SLAVE AND NEVER ASK FOR EQUALE RIGHTS CAUSE AS LONG AS I AM HERE AS A MAN YOU ARE NOGHTING ! :evil:

If a girl who lives in such a family, tries to stand against such a rules she is risking on losing almost every thing that is important to her. Her family will stop supporting her and the society will punish her as a bad person. Some times the conclusions are so terrible that many girls decide to remain alive at least…its really horrible and sad…fortunately in my country many girls in the big cities are standing against such a rules and claiming their real right by working and educating themselves better than men but the heavy shadow of these old barbaric rules are still floating over our heads… *sighs and nods*
Last edited by Anahita on Thu Aug 24, 2006 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby vince90 » Thu Aug 24, 2006 8:00 pm

ahmedgamal wrote:now I am very very sad :cry: all of you ignore my post about being friends.... :cry: .....I will reply your posts but after you reply my post about being friends...I will be very sad if you all ignore my post again...will you care about my feelings or not? that's my only question for now :roll:


We don’t ignore your post, we just have different opinions about virginity from your. Being friend doesn’t mean that we have to agree with you all the time. People should have different ideas and opinions. Although you don’t like it; but should accept them as respecting others opinions. That is how friendship is. Hope you feel better pal.

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Postby ahmedgamal » Thu Aug 24, 2006 8:15 pm

We don’t ignore your post, we just have different option about virginity from your. Being friend doesn’t mean that we have to agree with you all the time. People should have different ideas and opinions. Although you don’t like it; but should accept them as respecting others opinions. That is how friendship is. Hope you feel better pal
I feel better now..thanks for care and for answer...I respect all your opinions I wasn't sad that the others don't agree with me I know that's a matter of opinions and I like all your opinions and I enjoying my time here by get your opinions...thanks again :D
Last edited by ahmedgamal on Thu Aug 24, 2006 9:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby ahmedgamal » Thu Aug 24, 2006 8:25 pm

So you will have the doctor to check her out before you marry her? :shock:
you didn't get what I mean with"matter of trust"I just show the soluation of that problem but as for me I won't do that if I really trust my bride and I won't marry a woman I don't trust sooo I won't do that....see you :D

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Postby ahmedgamal » Thu Aug 24, 2006 8:50 pm

like a farmer who takes a cattle to vet before buying it
respond if we ask the same treatment about virginity from them, just wondering
... :roll:[/quote]it seems that a man have affect you badly bad. I said that before,stop think of a man as a monster who only want to capeture you inside a cage called marriage
you even don't care about what I mean.......I will go to the medical examins If my bride want I don't know there's a way to find out that. you must ask a doctor not me and I want ask you about your age and your religion. the important question did you visit Egypt before?. just out of curiosity
Last edited by ahmedgamal on Thu Aug 24, 2006 9:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby ahmedgamal » Thu Aug 24, 2006 8:59 pm

Exactly! It's humiliating, and I don't think those men love their brides AT ALL. I can't understand why women allow their men to treat them like that. Have they no dignity?
that doesn't humiliating but it's awful,terrible,bad,unpleasant and evil butif it really happen :wink:

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Postby ahmedgamal » Thu Aug 24, 2006 10:54 pm

Is dignity, pride, self-respect, etc. only counted by a girl's virginity?!?!?!?!? What age are we living, I may ask?
thanks for your answer I didn't say that those values only counted by a girl's virginty but it gives the person more of those values and I said that before"you have the right to lose your virginty so I do and I have the right to choose the virgin one so you do"......about your question you, we live in the age of criticizing Ahmed gamal's opinion :lol: I was joking :D


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