About Bible

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MissLT
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Postby MissLT » Thu Sep 21, 2006 11:36 pm

Rach wrote: For example, they believed everybody can achieve resurrection, very heretic for itself;-). Or they teached that everybody is able to contact Him, no priests needed;-), what a dreadful thought for every church. A proverb of the scrolls that I remember: "The house of God is not made of stone". I really love that one;-).

Yeah, they don't believe in reincarnation because it's a very dangerous idea. If one could come back one life after another, what would be the point of the Judgement Day? What would be the point of believing in Jesus as a savior? Etc.

I remember when I was a little kid and started to learn how to read. I would read anything I found in my house. At that time, my family and my cousin's family were living together. My aunt and uncle had a whole bookcase of books about Christianity, ranging from children level to adult level. I loved reading those children books because they had cute pictures, especially the Old Testament book with its cute pictures.

I remember the first part of the Old Testament had pictures of humans getting punished for worshipping cows, objects, building skycrapers up to the sky, etc. As I grew older, I realized it was people of different religions who got punished in that Old Testament. How ironic! Getting punished because of worshipping different religions.

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Postby Danyet » Thu Sep 21, 2006 11:36 pm

LennyeTran wrote:
danyet wrote:I have already told you where the proof is that the hebrew Bible has not been changed in at least 2500 - 3000 years by as much as a letter...twice! Yet you still all argue this point.

Where's your proof? *Phhbbbtttssssss* :twisted:


Google The Dead Sea Scrols;;;;;;;I won't say it again.



You are right about translations. That is why there are different brands of Christianity. But They all agree on the basics.
This the reason that you will not find me preaching. Even I am not sure of certain things.

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Postby MissLT » Thu Sep 21, 2006 11:41 pm

Rach wrote: But I think we all believe in something, if it's only life for itself, the nature, the humans or whatever, then perhaps atheism doesn't exist at all?

This is exactly why I don't think there's no such thing as atheism. By definition, atheism is

Atheism:

–noun 1. the doctrine or belief that there is no God.
2. disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.

If you believe there is no God, then by definition it's atheism. However, you "believe," so how could it be a "non-belief" at all? You do believe in something. It's just that it's not God. Buddhists don't believe in God, but people do call it a "religion." Therefore, atheism, by all means, is a religion to me, a religion of not believing in God. :twisted:

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Postby Danyet » Thu Sep 21, 2006 11:41 pm

jeffcox wrote:
I did use the word 'change' once and I would have prefered the word 'modified' in that I believe exact translations are not possible in all aspects of any language.


Part of the reason for my post on "change' is for the benefit of those in the Muslims Middle East forum who believe that the Bible was changed by the Jews. This is clearly NOT THE CASE.

This is an extremely important for Muslims because if the Bible was not change then it proves Mohammed was a fake!

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Postby Rach » Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:17 am

LennyeTran wrote:Yeah, they don't believe in reincarnation because it's a very dangerous idea. If one could come back one life after another, what would be the point of the Judgement Day? What would be the point of believing in Jesus as a savior? Etc.

Exactly :wink:. The catholic church in the first centuries actually believed in reincarnation, a fact that really surprised me. They changed it in some strange council, don't remember when this happened exactly. The Essenes believed in reincarnation, too, and because some historians assume a link between Jesus and the Essenes, I really believe that what is written in the bible or part of the teaching of today's christian churches, is not quite the same that Jesus actually teached.

How ironic! Getting punished because of worshipping different religions.

Yeah, it's very sad. So much people got killed (or still get killed) in the name of God/Allah or however they call him. In the name of god... how ironic.

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Postby MissLT » Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:23 am

Rach wrote:Exactly :wink:. The catholic church in the first centuries actually believed in reincarnation, a fact that really surprised me. They changed it in some strange council, don't remember when this happened exactly.

I remember asking my teacher why. He said it was because of money. And he laughed. So I'm not quite sure if he was joking about it or it was real true. :?

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Postby jeffcox » Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:34 am

I think that there is no God. That is my statement.
Call it belief, call it opinion... call it what you will. I'm not going to fight over the exact wording as I'm a self-confessed lethargic non-believer.

As far as I am concerned, there is no God. I think that qualifies me as a trainee athieist! :?

LennyeTran: If God existed, I really wouldn't like him anyway. I've seen too much pain and suffering to believe that it's all for our 'spiritual good'. And even then, I've lived a pretty comfortable life.

When people can't explain what happens in life through the Bible, they say 'the ways of God are beyond those who are below Him' or some such idea.

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Postby Rach » Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:42 am

LennyeTran wrote:I remember asking my teacher why. He said it was because of money. And he laughed. So I'm not quite sure if he was joking about it or it was real true. :?

Wasn't it everything about money in the church? :lol: I think you have pointed out the reasons very good, if there was such a thing like reincarnation, why should anybody need Jesus as a saviour? I looked what Wikipedia sais to all that and I found that council, it was the second council of Constantinople:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_and_reincarnation

Origen, an early Christian theologian who lived during the third century, wrote that "The soul has neither beginning nor end. [They] come into this world strengthened by the victories or weakened by the defeats of their previous existence" (De Principiis). This belief was not unique to Origen; early Christians believed that the soul exists prior to the conception and birth of a person, a belief that many then-popular variants of Greek philosophy accepted....

In AD 553, more than three hundred years after Origen's death, the Emperor Justinian issued an edict against Origen, whose writings had by then become very divisive, and convened the Second Council of Constantinople. This Council issued "The Anathemas Against Origen". The first sentence reads, "If anyone asserts the fabulous pre-existence of souls, and shall assert the monstrous restoration which follows from it: let him be anathema."....

The decision of the Second Council of Constantinople regarding the pre-existence of souls has never been disputed since by traditional Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant theologians and mainstream denominations.

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Postby Danyet » Sat Sep 23, 2006 4:49 am

What the Catholic councils agreed to or disagreed on is of little importance to Christianity because they are not an authority on Christianity. They are simply a political organization as corupt as anything else.

CHristianity is between one person and his Creator. That's all!

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Postby Lalee » Sat Sep 23, 2006 6:08 pm

jeffcox wrote:Anyway, I love your ideas and the fact that we can debate them. I hope that my comments do not offend you, or my choice of expression. If I did, it was not my intention.
It's great to debate these issues, I'm learning a lot from everybody's comments.

Jeff, your comments never offended me so don't worry. Actually it's interesting to know how some people think about God.

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Postby Lalee » Sat Sep 23, 2006 6:11 pm

LennyeTran wrote:That means you don't believe in the Judgment Day? :?

Of course I do. That's written in the Bible. The Judgment Day is not the end. You know that our souls are eternal, right? So if our body dies, our souls have to go somewhere and live in that place forever. So what's the end? I'd say there's no end.

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Postby Danyet » Sat Sep 23, 2006 8:06 pm

Lalee wrote:
LennyeTran wrote:That means you don't believe in the Judgment Day? :?

Of course I do. That's written in the Bible. The Judgment Day is not the end. You know that our souls are eternal, right? So if our body dies, our souls have to go somewhere and live in that place forever. So what's the end? I'd say there's no end.

Nowhere in the Bible is it written that the soul is immortal. It is written that "The soul that sinneth dies"!!!


Your idea that the soul lives forever is from Greek pagans and adopted by the Roman Catholics in the 3rd century.

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Postby Lalee » Sat Sep 23, 2006 10:19 pm

danyet wrote:Nowhere in the Bible is it written that the soul is immortal. It is written that "The soul that sinneth dies"!!!
Your idea that the soul lives forever is from Greek pagans and adopted by the Roman Catholics in the 3rd century.

Well I was referring to the spirit. To me soul and spirit mean pretty much the same thing but according the Bible, it seems they're different since it mentions both, soul and spirit. For example:
Genesis 2,7
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Also they say "The holy Spirit" and not "the holy soul."
The spirit originates from the breath of God when He created Adam and that's why it's eternal.
If the spirit were not be eternal, they wouldn't be anything for us after we die here.

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Postby Danyet » Sun Sep 24, 2006 8:45 am

That is my point. There is nothing for us when we die. The Bible clearly tells us this. We have to wait for the Resurection.
Ecclesiastes 9:5-6, 10, NIV. "For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even the memory of them is forgotten. Their love, their hate and their jealousy have long since vanished;

Read this:
http://en.bibleinfo.com/topics/topic.html?id=55

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Postby Danyet » Mon Sep 25, 2006 6:02 am

Lalee wrote: For example:
Genesis 2,7[i]
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
You must go to the original Hebrew to ubderstand this correctly.
The Hebrew word for 'soul' is simply 'living being' and is also used for animals. Animals [b]are
souls!
Man is a soul!

The Hebrew word for "spirit" is "nephesh" and it has the meaning "breath".

Any idea that the soul is immortal is preconceived.
Last edited by Danyet on Mon Sep 25, 2006 6:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Lalee » Mon Sep 25, 2006 6:07 am

danyet wrote:You must go to the original Hebrew to ubderstand this correctly.
The Hebrew word for 'soul' is simply 'living being' and is also used for animals. Animals are souls!
Man is a soul!

The Hebrew word for "spirit" is "nephesh" and it has the meaning "breath".

Any idea that the soul is immortal is preconceived.

So there's a difference between soul and spirit, right?

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Postby jeffcox » Mon Sep 25, 2006 12:35 pm

The body and the soul are one. The soul is our affections, memory and reason.

These would be forgotten in reincarnation, I would think.

The Spirit is the 'higher plane' and the one that is linked to the Spirit of God. It is the Spirit that must acknowledge God, I think.

If there were to be any life after death, it would have to be on the Spiritual plane.

I have one more question refering to "The Word of God"

If God punished humanity for creating the Tower of Babel and divided the people into languages so that they could not communicate...

How can we believe the Word of God is THE Word of God? Surely, the Word He gave to those was only intended for those people, since he knew they would not be able to communicate it well to any others who spoke a different language.

Therefore, only those who understood the words God used would be able to follow God's teachings. What happens to the rest of the people?

Just an idea to consider!

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Postby Danyet » Mon Sep 25, 2006 6:58 pm

jeffcox wrote:
Therefore, only those who understood the words God used would be able to follow God's teachings. What happens to the rest of the people?

Just an idea to consider!


The short answer is that Yahweh will judge everyone on what was in their hearts.
It does not matter what they knew or understood. If they were truly trying to be decent life forms they will be accepted by Yahweh. He will judge. If you believe that Yahweh is “good” then you should have no problem accepting His judgment.



Relating to The Tower Of Babel:

That is exactly what happened! God chose to communicate His plan with one man. Abraham and his descendants, Israel and those who "spiritually" belong to the the group "descendants of Abraham".

This was relatively shortly after the Great Flood and after the time of the Tower of Babel.

Through Abraham and his descendants, Yahweh would keep in touch with the world until the time of the Gentiles, now, when everyone has access to Him.

After the Flood a man named Nimrod became powerful and built a great city in Mesopotamia. He declared himself a god and had an incestuous relationship with his mother. The people that still remembered Yahweh killed Nimrod and cut him up into pieces.

The life of Nimrod is the founding story behind most pagan religions in the Middle East and Europe.





The most famous name from antiquity after the flood, from the pagan perspective, was the Biblical character Nimrod who was responsible for the events that led to the division of mankind into the hands of the “sons of God.”

Nimrod is credited in Genesis as being “a mighty warrior on the earth” and “a mighty hunter before the Lord.” He is known as the first “empire builder” and through force of conquest he established his empire over the whole of Mesopotamia.

According to the Bible he first ruled from the cities of Babel, Erech, Accad and Calneh in southern Mesopotamia, and then he moved north and built the cities of Ninevah, Reheboth-Ir, Caleh and Resen.


According to Josephus it was under the authority of Nimrod that mankind attempted to build the blasphemous Tower of Babel.

The role of Nimrod in attempting to building a massive skyscraper to heaven makes sense only with the understanding that Nimrod was a worshiper and follower of the chief of the "sons of God" that we know as Satan. The Tower of Babel was an attempt to gain for Satan what Satan desired according to Isaiah 14:13-14,
“You said in your heart, ‘I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain. I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.’”

Much of humanity was forcefully united under Nimrod, and with him as the authority mankind began to build the rebellious monument known as the Tower of Babel. To remedy the situation God decreed the establishment of different languages and the division of mankind to the seventy angelic powers to manage the affairs of the earth.

Instead of being united against the Creator, humanity would now be divided against the Creator, which would allow for God to continue with His redemptive plan for all humanity, through His own nation Israel.
http://www.redmoonrising.com/worldpowers/awpII.htm

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Postby jeffcox » Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:25 am

Thanks Danyet. Some information I already knew, some is new.

Your answer raises two more questions:

If Yahweh, or whatever name is given to the One, understands that you are good, then do you really need to understand His Word? If not, then the fact that you have to recognize and accept him is a fickle wish of His. His desire to be the One. I mean, that's so egoistic and ... human! That's really, really HUMAN.

If God was all Great and Forgiving, and beyond any human vices, then it wouldn't matter if we worship other gods, because they are all Him; the One God. Being good for no reason is much better than being good because you get a reward or you're afraid of 'hell' or other such punishments.

He was to continue his redemptive plan through Israel... so Israel was to spread the Word - that means we could never really understand God... or that Israel was a new beginning and the rest of us do the best we can without Him?

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Postby MissLT » Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:21 am

Lalee wrote:
LennyeTran wrote:That means you don't believe in the Judgment Day? :?

Of course I do. That's written in the Bible. The Judgment Day is not the end. You know that our souls are eternal, right? So if our body dies, our souls have to go somewhere and live in that place forever. So what's the end? I'd say there's no end.

Lalee wrote:
LennyeTran wrote:That means you don't believe in the Judgment Day? :?

Of course I do. That's written in the Bible. The Judgment Day is not the end. You know that our souls are eternal, right? So if our body dies, our souls have to go somewhere and live in that place forever. So what's the end? I'd say there's no end.

Well, it's the end to me since the day you're judged is the day you'd be free from sins. If you would become another person or whatever you would be with no sin, then how could it not be the end? :wink:

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Re: About Bible .

Postby sweethuman » Wed Jun 08, 2011 11:48 am

byron wrote: Then there is the Koran which incorporates some of both and post dates Mohammed.

The koran has nothing at all to do with the Bible. The Koran contradicts the Bible and was written by a mass murderer and his scribes, Mohammed. It was written some 600 years after the life of Jesus.[/quote]

You are not allowed to say bad of any religion or any religious book. Just talk about your religion


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