future of EU

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LadyMacbeth
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Turkey in EU

Post by LadyMacbeth » Sat Oct 21, 2006 8:01 pm

Well... will it change anything at all?
I usually read a lot of things (on the Net too). And my immpression is that noone in Europe cares about EU at all (EU representatives including).
What I can also notice is that less important organisations are copying things from the bigger ones. Thus EU seems to me got drowned into the flood of bigger international networks. Some days ago I saw a big poster of some international organisations that are carrying help to impoverished people. EU was one of them.
:oops: :oops: :oops:
Do you have similar observations?
:roll: :roll: :roll:

Cheers,
LM.

wllsp
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Location: Russia, Saint-Petersburg

Post by wllsp » Sun Oct 22, 2006 1:50 pm

Admiral wrote: I also guess like istattack thatEU wants itself to be a Christian country instead of a multireligious country.
I think you are right about that. Moreover, it is not a bad idea for the EU to be mainly christian.

For example, here is Russia we have lot of nations living together side by side. Some of them practice Islam, some Christianity. And from my experience we regularily have religious conflicts between people.

As far as I understand it just means two things. First, there is no way to avoid all religious conflicts whatever the goverment does. Second, as it is difficult to handle tensions between religios then it is quite logical to object to creating multireligious union. Is a sensible approach.

LadyMacbeth
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hello:)

Post by LadyMacbeth » Sun Oct 22, 2006 8:47 pm

In my opinion it isn't too possible to build multi religious union unless we would find something that would unite Europe much more than things that have been always dividing it (historical anymosities, wars, languages, different political ideologies). We would have to think about business and money. Is Europe able to do it?
We should try at least.
Eastern Europe has also some advantages. First is healthier air. You can laugh but I know what I am writing. All industry has been ruined here since the communism collapse so we live in much healthier environment than people in dirty West.
Of course thus many people don't have food cause they are jobless but our politicians have always been blind for needs of their societies. It is also historical difference between West and East.
The last care too little about material world, business, technological progress, GOOD education. They concentrate too much on power and money itself, they like imposing crazy things on other people.
It is much more than religion. It is quite different mentality. Is it possible to build any real union in such conditions?

:roll: :roll: :roll:

jeffcox
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Location: England - Brazil

Post by jeffcox » Mon Oct 23, 2006 3:11 pm

Nobody entered Europe for international social reasons.

Europe is a political arena. Governmental interests are at the heart of it. Each government has the responsibility to promote and protect its the interests of its own citizens first and foremost. As no country is socially perfect, those internal interests will always be stronger.

You will not prevent conflicts between two coutries who have different interests, but you can create a place where dialogue can be built. For this, the European Community has a very important role to play.

LadyMacbeth
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Europe - network of problems...

Post by LadyMacbeth » Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:12 pm

Each government has the responsibility to promote and protect its the interests of its own citizens first and foremost.
Well ...I would arhue at this place. Still some governemnts care about THEIR own interests. And interest of government is taking taxes to have money for their salaries:(. Some bad governments don't care about anything else, I am afraid:(

you can create a place where dialogue can be built. For this, the European Community has a very important role to play.
Do you really believe we can build any dialague in Europe?
Thus you would have to find a way to unite two different parts of this divided continent.
I mean Europe. You would have to find a way how to unite east and west. It is a very difficult task when you are thinking about it seriously.
People in the west and east have different mentalities. Their mentality has been shaped throughout many centuries.
How could you change west according to western pattern? How to make western people eastern like?

Maybe the core of the problem is that US is a multi national couldron but united around money. These people are productive, competitive. Eastern people aren't too productive cause they don't understand free market. All they know is power and stick above their heads. Without these things they will fall over the production-line rather than will be product any innovations.
Plus if you want to see them working hard you have to pay them honestly. They are always paid unfair.

What chances can you see then for uniting east and west?
I am very interested to know all opinions.

:roll: :roll: :roll:
Cheers,
LM

LadyMacbeth
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Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 6:26 pm

some little corrections of my text above:)

Post by LadyMacbeth » Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:23 pm

1.argue
2.still some governments care only about THEIR own interests
3.How could you change west according to eastern pattern?
4.they will fall over the production-line rather than will product any innovations.

thanks for reading:)
LM

jeffcox
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Location: England - Brazil

Post by jeffcox » Sat Oct 28, 2006 3:59 am

Hi LadyMacbeth,

I say that the EC is a place for dialogue. Without that, there could never be any peace. People with different beliefs, customs and cultures must meet to dialogue; where does the tollerance and understanding come from if you don't do this?

Of course, there are many problems. They will not cease to exist. Problems are not resolved overnight. They take generations, centuries... or even longer. However, they must be resolved by dialogue. Without dialogue, there would only ever be ignorance, misunderstanding or all out war.

All governments have their own interests at heart. That's what they exist for. A government represents its people. The people demand improvements within their own countries. They may demand improvements in other countries too, but not at a great expense to them.

When you go to vote, you don't vote for the candidate who achieved nothing for his own country, do you?

LadyMacbeth
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Posts: 1419
Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 6:26 pm

hello:)

Post by LadyMacbeth » Sat Oct 28, 2006 6:07 pm

Hello in this thread,
I say that the EC is a place for dialogue. Without that, there could never be any peace. People with different beliefs, customs and cultures must meet to dialogue; where does the tollerance and understanding come from if you don't do this?
Well... I like you ery much. You are so good-hearted.
But are we really here to discuss anything? Really?
What I can see (I have been writing here for about 2 years) is that people all over the world put here many irrelevant ideas about everything in order to improve their English.
What is the result of this discussion?
Few people surely have picked up here some new words and owe to Englishclub.com better understanding of some problems. That's obvious.

But another current news is that one of latest Englishclub ideas is banning all discussions on politics and religion:(.
What is left for us then?
Love of course. Money and sex too (or sex and money).
Family. Culture. Entertainment. Job. School. Food. holidays. pasttimes.
However, they must be resolved by dialogue. Without dialogue, there would only ever be ignorance, misunderstanding or all out war.
Well... as we can know from history not all problems can be solved by dialogue or building even higher wall:(. Sometimes people just crave for war and get it:(
Ability of dialogue and skill of discussing are attributes of philosophers. Majority of people resemble rather wild animals than philosophers who loved rather thinking than waging wars.
A government represents its people.
Not all governments. Some governments represent...themselves. Their own interests.
Mostly becauese some societies are far from ideas of what democracy is or should be. I mean citizens of these countries simply haven't been educated about democracy during history lessons. Or during other appropriate lessons.
When you go to vote, you don't vote for the candidate who achieved nothing for his own country, do you?
Well... great remark. I will go and vote for the prettiest and the smartest one. Why? Because truly speaking I don't believe he or she will care about my problems after his/her victory. He will be too busy with his new... salary. And what is my problem at this point (doubtful hahaha) - well...truly speaking I would change it at once.

Isn't it ironic? :wink:
Yes I think...
A little too ironic...
I really do think :(

Rach
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Location: Switzerland

Re: hello:)

Post by Rach » Sun Oct 29, 2006 12:33 am

Hi LadyMacbeth,
LadyMacbeth wrote:I mean Europe. You would have to find a way how to unite east and west. It is a very difficult task when you are thinking about it seriously.
People in the west and east have different mentalities.
I think in the western countries of the EU there are huuuuuge differences of mentality, too, I don't think the mentality of Russians for example is so much more different that the mentality of an Italian and someone from England or Poland?
But are we really here to discuss anything? Really?
What I can see (I have been writing here for about 2 years) is that people all over the world put here many irrelevant ideas about everything in order to improve their English.
Hopefully the guys in Brussels who discuss the issues of the future EU are a bit more "reasonable" and open for dialogue than a bunch of ESL-students from all over the world ;-).

I'm not so pessimistic about the future of the EU, I still think it's a great idea (unfortunately my country isn't part of it). It makes a lot of things easier, for the economics, finding a job etc. Of course there are disadvantages, too, but I don't think different mentalities are part of them.

LadyMacbeth
Rough Diamond Member
Posts: 1419
Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 6:26 pm

time

Post by LadyMacbeth » Sun Oct 29, 2006 1:35 pm

Hello:)
I think in the western countries of the EU there are huuuuuge differences of mentality, too, I don't think the mentality of Russians for example is so much more different that the mentality of an Italian and someone from England or Poland?
Well... I think mentality is one think and general attitude towards earning money and producting goods is another problem. (or still the same - I don't know).

It is however interesting that the same people who aren't able to crawl into assembly line in their netive country (which lies somewhere in Eastern Europe - lets say) work so hard in western supermarkets that are being permametly built everywhere around here.
Why?
When I will say "do it!" - noone will obey it in proper manner. When someone from the west will tell the same (for even smaller salary) the same person will go and do it!
What a psychological puzzle you have to admit.

Another thing is that Eastern Europe has been totally industrially destroyed since the end of communism.
The question WHY is also a very complicated one.
I don't think I am able to answer it. Maybe partly again. Probably it went - communism was bad, we are poor, we need to be richer fast. And instead of building new things people destroyed the old ones but built anything new on their place:(
I'm not so pessimistic about the future of the EU, I still think it's a great idea (unfortunately my country isn't part of it). It makes a lot of things easier, for the economics, finding a job etc. Of course there are disadvantages, too, but I don't think different mentalities are part of them.
I think thinking about EU in positive way nowadays can be nothing more but another illusion for poorer countries. Of course we are helped by EU but in most of cases the help isn't fairly diveded here (my opinion). There are also many needs but lots of people who rule here don't travel too far and they aren't too sophisticated at all so they don't need any ...needs to take any money. Besides they aren't able to take them. And that is a real tragedy.

Switzerland is a country of banks thus they want to be far from all political influences. Many people around the world leave money in their banks - they could be scared of being persecuted in case of any political drifts.

Thus we conclude that being apolitical is also an element of politics :wink:
But noone never knows where some discussions can lead us to... :wink:
regards,
LM

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