600 held, 96 hurt in Estonia riots

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BadStudent
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600 held, 96 hurt in Estonia riots

Postby BadStudent » Sat Apr 28, 2007 4:49 pm

Estonian government has demolished the monument of World War. Read here
That is an act of vandalism. :twisted: :twisted:

my grandfather participated in the World War and were wounded, he was a soldier of Red Army.

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Postby Hardi » Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:37 pm

In that source u gave. There's not at once mentioned anything about demolishion. How did it happen that removal become to demolishion to you?

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Postby MissLT » Sat Apr 28, 2007 9:43 pm

After all those years, why now? :?

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Postby Danyet » Sun Apr 29, 2007 6:22 am

Hardi wrote:In that source u gave. There's not at once mentioned anything about demolishion. How did it happen that removal become to demolishion to you?


The Estonian government removed the monument because it reminded them of 50 years of Russian rule.

It was pretty dumb really! Why remove it now? History is history. Removing the statue will not change the fact that Estonia was part of USSR.

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Postby BadStudent » Sun Apr 29, 2007 6:32 am

Hardi wrote:In that source u gave. There's not at once mentioned anything about demolishion. How did it happen that removal become to demolishion to you?


They don't put it in a museum you might think.First they remove it, then they melt metal and sell...This is the dirty politcs and stinky politicians, pal.

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Postby Hardi » Sun Apr 29, 2007 9:08 am

danyet wrote:The Estonian government removed the monument because it reminded them of 50 years of Russian rule.

It was pretty dumb really! Why remove it now? History is history. Removing the statue will not change the fact that Estonia was part of USSR.
It seems so that it was fine, until Estonia joined with EU and NATO.... Russian veterans bring flowers there.. etc. But then there started some small conflicts between Russian and Estonian nationalists.. very likely aid by some Russian politicans and media.. for who knows in what reason.. Also it seems some Estonian politicans tried to proffit from this issue before elections.

There are also elections coming in Russia soon, so Russian politicans will profit it as much as possible..

BTW. Estonian Russians read mostly Russian media.

There is 2 reason why to move that monument. Because provokers used it to provoke fight. And there is unknown amount of Soviet Soldiers buried around of it. that need to investigate. It seems, that when the monument was build. They dig out some dead soldiers from grabveldier. Unfortunately no one know how many them are there and where they are. It is said that some are also bottom of trolleybuss stop near it. It's not normal that peoples stay on someones grave when waiting buss..

I also don't exclude, the possibility that it was removed. because the ground in towntown is pretty precious. Maybe someone want build some supermarket there :D

Anyway the good thing about that riot, is that they disallowed to sell any alcohol until 2 th. May. The streets here(Tartu) are now more quayet at night than usually. :D

Seems that in revel was mostly trashed alcohol Stores, Armandi store and other. Such as book store got only some broken window. But Armandi had to close doors, since all their stuff were robed away.. I wonder if someone of those Russians actually courage to come to street by wearing that Armandi suit. :twisted: ..They will get catshed for sure, there was also too many cameras in town.
Last edited by Hardi on Sun Apr 29, 2007 2:19 pm, edited 7 times in total.

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Postby Hardi » Sun Apr 29, 2007 9:19 am

BadStudent wrote:
Hardi wrote:In that source u gave. There's not at once mentioned anything about demolishion. How did it happen that removal become to demolishion to you?


They don't put it in a museum you might think.First they remove it, then they melt metal and sell...This is the dirty politcs and stinky politicians, pal.
We'll see what they do. They have promised to move it to graveyard of defense. I think they will keep own promise this time..

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Postby wllsp » Wed May 02, 2007 5:00 pm

LennyeTran wrote:After all those years, why now? :?

To me time doesn't matter that much. What matters is that some Estonians dislike Russians and everything that is related to the USSR. For example in 80's they often showed disrespect to Russian speaking tourists. In 90's serious obstacles were created for Russians who lived there and wanted to get Estonian citizenship. A few days ago the Estonian goverment relocated the monument. In the future they are likely to do something else of this sort.

Honestly even though I don't want to support their actions they have some historical reasons to behave like this.

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Postby MissLT » Thu May 03, 2007 10:36 pm

Hardi wrote:It seems so that it was fine, until Estonia joined with EU and NATO.... Russian veterans bring flowers there.. etc. But then there started some small conflicts between Russian and Estonian nationalists.. very likely aid by some Russian politicans and media.. for who knows in what reason.. Also it seems some Estonian politicans tried to proffit from this issue before elections.

:shock: You meant they weren't allowed to visit it until Estonia joined the EU?

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Postby MissLT » Thu May 03, 2007 10:39 pm

Hardi wrote:
Seems that in revel was mostly trashed alcohol Stores, Armandi store and other. Such as book store got only some broken window. But Armandi had to close doors, since all their stuff were robed away.. I wonder if someone of those Russians actually courage to come to street by wearing that Armandi suit. :twisted: ..They will get catshed for sure, there was also too many cameras in town.

AX store got looted? :shock: And the bold part, don't you worry, they can always sell the clothes back on ebay. :lol: :lol:

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Postby MissLT » Thu May 03, 2007 10:46 pm

wllsp wrote:
LennyeTran wrote:After all those years, why now? :?

To me time doesn't matter that much. What matters is that some Estonians dislike Russians and everything that is related to the USSR. For example in 80's they often showed disrespect to Russian speaking tourists. In 90's serious obstacles were created for Russians who lived there and wanted to get Estonian citizenship. A few days ago the Estonian goverment relocated the monument. In the future they are likely to do something else of this sort.

Honestly even though I don't want to support their actions they have some historical reasons to behave like this.

Well, I know that some Estonians detest Russians. Hardi never stops reminding me about this fact. He is one, by the way. Actually, cross that off, he hates everyone equally. :twisted:

The bottom line is, they weren't irritated until last Saturday. I wonder why it took them all those years to make this move. Something or someone motivated them to do it, and the dangerous part is not the violent act itself. It's the motivation that we should be concerned. Hate crime should be taken serious.

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Postby Hardi » Fri May 04, 2007 5:46 am

LennyeTran wrote: :shock: You meant they weren't allowed to visit it until Estonia joined the EU?
How did u understand it that way? Are you serious? They were allowed to go there, they drink even vodka there and had party at 9th. may. I was mean before joining EU and NATO there were no conflicts.. (make your own conclusions from that..) Actually I think it was after last year 9 th. may when they but a fence for some time. And a Police guard to guard it. To avoid vandalism and such

I don't get why it all happened, for me and most Estonians who I know that Statue could stay there for ever.. but situation become intolerable.. Some idiot making some graffiti and Russian media yell fascism.. Yeah that's why I say it was last time to move it away. Now when it moved to graveyard of deffence power, it should be better..
Last edited by Hardi on Fri May 04, 2007 6:14 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby Hardi » Fri May 04, 2007 6:07 am

Yes on 80's Estonians did not like Russians here, and there were plenty of reasons, but someone to think that now after becoming independent. Estonians still hate Russians or even connive how to hurt them...
To hate, I need reason. Otherwise I would be idiot.. it would make only my own life miserable.

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Postby wllsp » Sat May 05, 2007 3:37 pm

Hardi wrote:Yes on 80's Estonians did not like Russians here, and there were plenty of reasons, but someone to think that now after becoming independent. Estonians still hate Russians or even connive how to hurt them...

You can believe in whatever you want to believe. However as far as I can see the Estonian govermant did hurt feelings of Russians including those who are citizens of Estonia by deciding to relocate monument in that fashion. If Russians had felt nothing about it they would not have come to protect the monument.

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Postby Hardi » Sat May 05, 2007 4:26 pm

I agree, that Estonian goverment did it, in a nasty way. They could do better. Why they didn't do that 10 years ago? Then nobody could not even noticed that it's gone. They could do it also on winter on this year, or wait some longer and do it aftr 9 th. may.


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