DIFFERENCE OF PERSON AND PEOPLE

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kittyhoang
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DIFFERENCE OF PERSON AND PEOPLE

Post by kittyhoang »

Hello everyone,

Please can you help me to explain the difference of PERSON and PEOPLE?
I learnt that person is for one man and people is for many men. But I see on the elevator, it is written 20 persons. I don't know why, can you help if it is wrong?

Kittyhoang
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Tukanja
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Re: DIFFERENCE OF PERSON AND PEOPLE

Post by Tukanja »

Kittyhoang, your question is pretty hard actually. It doesn't matter that as a fighter I am going to tell you my opinion.

The word person is a word which describe a one either woman, man or children.
The word person is a singular countable noun.

Plural of person is either the word people or sometimes persons.

I use the word people when refer to a lot of persons (which I don't know the number of or the number doesn't matter) for example for people who live in a city or in a country, people in general etc.

This people will not vote for him.
Move that people out of the road.
A lot of people all over the world will see the match. (A lot of persons wouldn't work here, sounds bad to me)

I think the word people as a noun is usually uncountable except we refer to a special group of people when it becomes countable noun.
These two stupid groups of people are going to atack each others.
These guys are known as a bad people. (all are the same (bad). there are no pesonalities which should be distinguished, emphasized)

When I know the exact number of the "persons" in the group then I use the word persons.
Then I say 10 persons, 15 persons.
These three persons are guilty for the train accident.

Up to 4 persons in the lift. OK for me.
But I wouldn't be surprised if saw ,'up to 4 people in the lift.', as well for the grammar allow use of both words in many cases, I think.

This wasn't easy to explain. Have I made a lot of mistakes I don't know.
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Re: DIFFERENCE OF PERSON AND PEOPLE

Post by kittyhoang »

Hi Takanja,

I don't know if your explaination is correct or not. However it helps me so much. Thank you very much. {-:
Constance
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Re: DIFFERENCE OF PERSON AND PEOPLE

Post by Constance »

Hi Tukanja,

You mentioned an example: This people will not vote for him.

I have learnt in school that 'this' is for singular and 'these' is for plural.

Is 'this' a special usage in the above example?
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Joe
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Re: DIFFERENCE OF PERSON AND PEOPLE

Post by Joe »

person (singular) has two plurals: people and persons

people is much more usual and friendlier than persons

I went on the trip with five other people.

persons is usually used in official circumstances, exactly like your elevator example

This must not be shown to any unauthorized persons.
kittyhoang
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Re: DIFFERENCE OF PERSON AND PEOPLE

Post by kittyhoang »

Josef wrote:person (singular) has two plurals: people and persons

people is much more usual and friendlier than persons

I went on the trip with five other people.

persons is usually used in official circumstances, exactly like your elevator example

This must not be shown to any unauthorized persons.
So that why I see "persons" on elevator. And I will not laugh at this. I thought there is a mistake there.

Thank teacher Josef.
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Joe
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Re: DIFFERENCE OF PERSON AND PEOPLE

Post by Joe »

Constance wrote:Hi Tukanja,
You mentioned an example: This people will not vote for him.
I have learnt in school that 'this' is for singular and 'these' is for plural.
Is 'this' a special usage in the above example?
People is plural and T's examples must be:
These people will not vote for him.
Move those people out of the road.

Person is a countable noun. It has two plural forms: persons and people.

--

Now, without wishing to "muddy the waters", the word people can also be singular, but then it has a different meaning:
- the men, women and children of a particular country or ethnic group

The Chinese are a great people.

But this people is also countable, and the plural is peoples:

This article is about the indigenous peoples of the Americas.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous ... e_Americas)
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Re: DIFFERENCE OF PERSON AND PEOPLE

Post by dngipson »

That's how I learned it. "Persons" almost represents different groups of people. Almost like "people" have some sort of non-stated, underlying connection. It's rather spiritual and euphoric when you think about it that way. :-D

"That was a large group of Chinese people."

"...to all persons regardless of race, color or creed!"
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Re: DIFFERENCE OF PERSON AND PEOPLE

Post by Tukanja »

I am still behind what I said.

This people will not vote for him. (nation)

"people" here consists of stupid idiots only. No differences between them.
(People in Norway would vote for him. People in Sweden would do the same. But here this people won't.)

That's what I meant.

The sentence describes the whole group I mentioned.
They are all so stupid that will not vor for him but a criminal as they do for decades here.
Using the word people like a true plural of a person I would say
These people will make the bridge. (I respect all of them personaly)

but

potato can be countable and uncountable noun.
people could be the same.
This people I see as a mashed potato in a dish.
Either personaly or together they are a food for the politicians.
So it is a mashed potato, nothing else.

No any personality to distinguish.
Then it is an ucountable noun.

(my English :mrgreen: )
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Tukanja
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Re: DIFFERENCE OF PERSON AND PEOPLE

Post by Tukanja »

kittyhoang wrote:Hi Takanja,

I don't know if your explaination is correct or not. However it helps me so much. Thank you very much. {-:
Whether my explanations are either helpfull, correct or with no any means of the mentioned, using English as much as I can helps me improving my level (in the language) too.

If you are willing to wait just a few decades I'll write a novel in the language and send it to you with my autograph. ;-) :-D
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Joe
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Re: DIFFERENCE OF PERSON AND PEOPLE

Post by Joe »

Tukanja: whichever sense of the word people you want to use, it is always countable - in English anyway, I can't speak for other languages :mrgreen:
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Re: DIFFERENCE OF PERSON AND PEOPLE

Post by Tukanja »

Seems to me that I should have written the definite article the as a determiner instead of the determiner this. (In the sentence I think I used the word this as a determiner and not as a pronoun. All right, using "this' this way isn't customary in English, I've got it. :-) )

I think I could have said,' This nation will not vote for him.' but in the era of globalisation and mixing people all around the world I said people instead of nation.

The people will not vote for him.(could be the solution)

These people will not vote for him has a different sense for me. It means that I was looking at a few man whose number was known when I said the sentence using the determiner these for a group of men around me.
I could also have said Those people will not vote for him. (If I am not with them)

In addition

She was the people's princess.

Is the noun people countable here in the sentence?

It sounds a bit strange to me to say She was the population's princess, isn't it?
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Re: DIFFERENCE OF PERSON AND PEOPLE

Post by Joe »

Actually, if you meant people in the second sense (which was not the sense we were talking about when you made your post :~: ), then your sentence is possible:
This people will not vote for him. (= This nation will not vote for him.)

(At the time the discussion was about people versus persons, so I thought that you were using people as the plural of person.)
She was the people's princess.
Is the noun people countable here in the sentence?
Yes, it's countable.

People is always countable :-|
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Re: DIFFERENCE OF PERSON AND PEOPLE

Post by kittyhoang »

Tukanja wrote: If you are willing to wait just a few decades I'll write a novel in the language and send it to you with my autograph. ;-) :-D
LOL, you are so humorous. To wait for a few decades, I think I will have some novels issued too. It will be a souvenir gift for you. :oops:

@Josef/Takanja/Constance/dngipson,
Thanks for your discussion. I now learn more about the usage of people and person.
However in the exams, I think I should only use the normal usage of "person" as a singular countable noun and "people" as a plura countable noun to ensure I don't fail my exams.
When I want to use "persons" as a plural noun and "people" as a singular noun, it must be understood in context.
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Re: DIFFERENCE OF PERSON AND PEOPLE

Post by Tukanja »

kittyhoang wrote: When I want to use "persons" as a plural noun and "people" as a singular noun, it must be understood in the context.
You're welcome. :-D

Have a nice weekend.
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Re: DIFFERENCE OF PERSON AND PEOPLE

Post by Joe »

Tukanja wrote:
kittyhoang wrote:When I want to use "persons" as a plural noun and "people" as a singular noun, it must be understood from the context.
:mrgreen:
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Re: DIFFERENCE OF PERSON AND PEOPLE

Post by Tukanja »

Yep! :mrgreen:

Thanks :-D
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Re: DIFFERENCE OF PERSON AND PEOPLE

Post by pedagog »

The info from joseph is correct. Some authorities (Strunk, for example) hold that "The word people is not to be used with words of number, in place of persons." {The Elements of Style, 1918} I disagree with this very old idea, particularly when Strunk gives such a flimsy example: "If of 'six people' five went away, how many 'people' would be left?" You can see how his example is silly if you substitute "geese" for "people". Sometimes the use of "the people" is vague, as the other answer shows. Out of context, we can't be sure if it means the populace or the people in an elevator. In these modern times, we aren't so strict as to limit people to mean only populace. We often accept it as the plural of persons, especially when the number is large. In legal and governmental use, persons is much more common than people when noting any easily counted group: "Sixteen persons witnessed the accident." One other use of people has become popular in recent years, although it makes me wince: those under the supervision or employ of someone. Example "My people will meet with your people to work out a contract."
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Re: DIFFERENCE OF PERSON AND PEOPLE

Post by pedagog »

Regarding this "countable" business: Don't confuse "countable" with "plural". In fact, people is always plural, as is peoples. You would never say "The people is revolting." We compare countable with measurable. Countable nouns need "many" or "fewer". Measurable nouns need "much" or "less". Some nouns can be used in either a countable or measurable sense, such as "troubles". Example: "His troubles are less than mine," means they are not as great or as serious as mine. "His troubles are fewer than mine," means he has a smaller number of troubles than I. We also accept some numbers as milestones or thresholds where either less or fewer can apply, such as "Less than a hundred men fought on the side of Spain in that battle."
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Re: DIFFERENCE OF PERSON AND PEOPLE

Post by kittyhoang »

Josef wrote:
Tukanja wrote:
kittyhoang wrote:When I want to use "persons" as a plural noun and "people" as a singular noun, it must be understood from the context.
:mrgreen:
I noted this.
Many thanks.
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Re: DIFFERENCE OF PERSON AND PEOPLE

Post by kittyhoang »

pedagog wrote:The info from joseph is correct. Some authorities (Strunk, for example) hold that "The word people is not to be used with words of number, in place of persons." {The Elements of Style, 1918} I disagree with this very old idea, particularly when Strunk gives such a flimsy example: "If of 'six people' five went away, how many 'people' would be left?" You can see how his example is silly if you substitute "geese" for "people". Sometimes the use of "the people" is vague, as the other answer shows. Out of context, we can't be sure if it means the populace or the people in an elevator. In these modern times, we aren't so strict as to limit people to mean only populace. We often accept it as the plural of persons, especially when the number is large. In legal and governmental use, persons is much more common than people when noting any easily counted group: "Sixteen persons witnessed the accident." One other use of people has become popular in recent years, although it makes me wince: those under the supervision or employ of someone. Example "My people will meet with your people to work out a contract."
Regarding this "countable" business: Don't confuse "countable" with "plural". In fact, people is always plural, as is peoples. You would never say "The people is revolting." We compare countable with measurable. Countable nouns need "many" or "fewer". Measurable nouns need "much" or "less". Some nouns can be used in either a countable or measurable sense, such as "troubles". Example: "His troubles are less than mine," means they are not as great or as serious as mine. "His troubles are fewer than mine," means he has a smaller number of troubles than I. We also accept some numbers as milestones or thresholds where either less or fewer can apply, such as "Less than a hundred men fought on the side of Spain in that battle."
Thanks for your help to explain very clearly the usage of two words people and person.
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Re: DIFFERENCE OF PERSON AND PEOPLE

Post by sweethuman »

Constance wrote:Hi Tukanja,

You mentioned an example: This people will not vote for him.

I have learnt in school that 'this' is for singular and 'these' is for plural.

Is 'this' a special usage in the above example?

hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
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Re: DIFFERENCE OF PERSON AND PEOPLE

Post by jmio »

I don't actually have anything to add to the "people" vs. "persons" debate, but "in context" was perfectly acceptable English, and in my mind probably preferable over any of the alternatives offered.
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